(no subject)
---This was intended as a reply to Ali's post in response to the poll but apparently it exceeds LJ's max character limit of 4300 characters for a reply o_O---
That is a very good point. My thought though is that if you're concerned about in-activeness, that's what the other mods are for; why there are more than one. Additionally, in response to me being inactive. As nearly all of you know, the reason for my extremely long absence has been total lack of internet access. I had moved into an apartment and the initial set-up time and all of that dragged on forever. It was rough, I went from averaging about 12 or so hours a day on the internet, RP included, to roughly about 1. I was not a happy camper. I had an internet connection at work so that's how I kept up with email and the (very) occasional 3p. Once I got internet all the drama and hurt/confusion with the entire Liz thing exploded and I still wasn't able to RP with the computer time I had. The point is I have internet now and mid-terms, Liz stuff, etc. have all died down and I have the time the RP deserves. Beth and I both honestly feel we have the time the RP deserves. That's why we decided to create another RP, leaving the old behind entirely.
Which brings me to my next point. I found it interesting how this all started out as Beth and me having a heart to heart talk and deciding to create an RP ourselves and everyone coming along with us. We both got emails and comments of "if" or "when you guys make a new RP, _______". It started off with the acknowledgment that Beth and I were starting a new RP. We didn't cease power, we didn't carry over our Liz bestowed modship as Jewel pointed out (honestly speaking, Jewel, thank you for that, I'm serious). We started out with us assuming modship because it started out as -us- creating a new, better RP. One with real rules and a better balance of responsibilities and power. Checks and balances and better ways of voicing concerns to the moderators. No more rules changing on the whim of a single person in charge. We all hated that from Liz's RP. We ('we' here being Beth and me) know extremely well and personally the frustrations and struggles with a ruling authority like that, where rule number one really says it all with "what I (moderator, whoever it is) say, goes." That's not the way things should be run, and we (again, Beth and me) know that intimately and have/had planned rules and things set in place to prevent that.
We heard everyone's, quite literally everyone's, personal requests for modship and/or more power in this new RP that Beth and I were creating (again, acknowledging that it was Beth and me creating it), and knew that it was a good idea. It still is. It's something that is very needed. At the very least a.. 'rewards' system or acknowledgment of seniority and/or doing a superb job of RPing and being active. In that sense it helps retain members and attract new ones; but that's just a positive side-effect, the real need for it is a true balance of power. However, what we had decided was that 2 mods are enough with starting out.. with just we 9 members. The need for more mods comes with a growing pool of people -to- mod. We can't have 6 mods for 9 people, that's ridiculous. It makes matters worse when people get upset and threaten this or that if they don't get to be mod -_-. Going beyond our thought that we had enough mods for the number of people we have, if we had chosen just one, feelings would inevitably be hurt via our 'picking favorites'. Yes, I do remember the person mentioning that they would gladly retract their bid to be mod if it meant a certain other to be initiated as mod instead. *sigh*, I'm starting to get off topic.
What I find frustrating is how much this has seemed to turn into a power struggle. It has seemed way too much like it than it should have. Beth and I have this entire time been trying to make everything fair and coming up with ways in which to make it so. What's frustrating is that whenever we tried to explain or lay out what we had thought of in an effort to get -your- thoughts and input, we were greeting simply with a question in the rough form of "who died and make you in charge? why do -you- get to decide what's fair? if you want it to be fair, _______" and it instead turns into a battle of who should make the rules and why it isn't fair that Beth and I are trying to make them. *headdesk* would everyone please stop, take a step back and out of themselves and the situation, and look at what is going on?!? We want nothing more than to make everything fair and to do right by everyone with the RP that -we- were going to create, and it seems that the only thing people can think of is that they should be the ones in power. After running circles around this for many hours yesterday, we finally agree'd to just put it to a vote. We were going to vote on who was going to be the mods of the RP that Beth and I were creating.
It finally had become clear to us that we had lost, it was a lost cause to keep fighting about how the RP should be run, our thoughts and ideas hadn't been taken anyway. It hurt. We never wanted any of this to look like we had taken this power and let it get to us and wanted to bar all others from 'stealing' any of our power. We just wanted to start an RP with rules set in place to keep the whole mod thing to a minimum, where the mod status kind of stuff would be more like the actual LJ term 'maintainer'. We wanted to keep the mod as a maintainer of the community and all of that, not some almighty ruler who wave's the mighty scepter of modship and makes everything the way -they- want it. That mighty scepter of modship would be a complete last resort, everything would be handled first by the rules that -everyone- has a hand in creating and agreeing upon in the beginning, second by they comm as a whole, then the officials and mods, then finally a final decision by the mod(s). It's designed to hopefully never reach that point of course.
That 'officials' step is probably a little confusing to pretty much everyone XD Beth and I thought of it over lunch yesterday. The thought of having as few -mod- mods as possible, but still having people in charge. A sort of hierarchy kind of thing perhaps. The old way was all power or no power, no gray area or anything in between. There are many problems with that but the main one I'm considering here being that there's no way to have any sort of reward kind of system or a well organized committee even. With only mods and then everyone else, it's still just the mods making final decisions and wielding all power. The idea with officials or officers (the name isn't at all important, we can name it whatever it's decided to use it) is that each of them has their own little domain and/or set of jobs that they have their own full control over. An example could be advertising and promotion, with perhaps banner making and all that thrown in there. The person(s) in charge of that would be able to have full control and power over their area. They would have responsibility and power, but not full control. Again, we want as few people in "full" control as we can to ensure that it isn't abused and all that, again, the maintainer mindset. In decision making, the officials would have more say in matters than normal members. This reflects the sort of reward system and seniority elements as I explained before. Officials would have set jobs and/or domains where they have control. It helps break up and balance the power.
Well, anyway, In hindsight I think we should have just let Jewel be mod with us and avoided alll this craziness. The comm's would have been up and running by now. Yesterday was going to be uber focused RP building but ended up a debate -_-.
I just really wanted to get all that out. Thanks for putting up with it all. I'm sorry it's been so hectic and tense, but we just wanted to ensure the best RP experience possible and thought our way for the RP Beth and I were creating would work for the best by all.
Jewel requested I add this part. It builds upon the officials thought explained above:
I just had another thought
and it's similar to what you guys suggested last night
which is that, just say hypothetically that Beth, Ali, Sen, and I were a mod team
I would probably take the initiative to start polls and involve the community in decision making.. the social worker, if you will
Beth would probably make the site changes and the more technical stuff, with your help
Alli, as she has done, might make big posts about changes and such in the rp
and Sen might be interested in taking kind of a 'support' role
but all of us would be able to mod posts and talk to players about things, in such a way that no one has too much responsibility, and less to worry about
something would always be covered
like I said, I like compromise.. and if we can incorporate the ideas you and Beth had, with the democratic strategy.. it really might be something good.
She also requested this, discussing a possible revote for the comm:
Jewel: yeah, same
I'm for a re-vote if that's what you guys wanna do
it's totally understandable
me: a re-vote with you, ren, ali, beth and me? since those were the ones with any votes
Jewel: It's important to me that there are no hurt feelings or anything
sure
we can just tell the community it's round 2 XD
me: right
Jewel: due to complications
That is a very good point. My thought though is that if you're concerned about in-activeness, that's what the other mods are for; why there are more than one. Additionally, in response to me being inactive. As nearly all of you know, the reason for my extremely long absence has been total lack of internet access. I had moved into an apartment and the initial set-up time and all of that dragged on forever. It was rough, I went from averaging about 12 or so hours a day on the internet, RP included, to roughly about 1. I was not a happy camper. I had an internet connection at work so that's how I kept up with email and the (very) occasional 3p. Once I got internet all the drama and hurt/confusion with the entire Liz thing exploded and I still wasn't able to RP with the computer time I had. The point is I have internet now and mid-terms, Liz stuff, etc. have all died down and I have the time the RP deserves. Beth and I both honestly feel we have the time the RP deserves. That's why we decided to create another RP, leaving the old behind entirely.
Which brings me to my next point. I found it interesting how this all started out as Beth and me having a heart to heart talk and deciding to create an RP ourselves and everyone coming along with us. We both got emails and comments of "if" or "when you guys make a new RP, _______". It started off with the acknowledgment that Beth and I were starting a new RP. We didn't cease power, we didn't carry over our Liz bestowed modship as Jewel pointed out (honestly speaking, Jewel, thank you for that, I'm serious). We started out with us assuming modship because it started out as -us- creating a new, better RP. One with real rules and a better balance of responsibilities and power. Checks and balances and better ways of voicing concerns to the moderators. No more rules changing on the whim of a single person in charge. We all hated that from Liz's RP. We ('we' here being Beth and me) know extremely well and personally the frustrations and struggles with a ruling authority like that, where rule number one really says it all with "what I (moderator, whoever it is) say, goes." That's not the way things should be run, and we (again, Beth and me) know that intimately and have/had planned rules and things set in place to prevent that.
We heard everyone's, quite literally everyone's, personal requests for modship and/or more power in this new RP that Beth and I were creating (again, acknowledging that it was Beth and me creating it), and knew that it was a good idea. It still is. It's something that is very needed. At the very least a.. 'rewards' system or acknowledgment of seniority and/or doing a superb job of RPing and being active. In that sense it helps retain members and attract new ones; but that's just a positive side-effect, the real need for it is a true balance of power. However, what we had decided was that 2 mods are enough with starting out.. with just we 9 members. The need for more mods comes with a growing pool of people -to- mod. We can't have 6 mods for 9 people, that's ridiculous. It makes matters worse when people get upset and threaten this or that if they don't get to be mod -_-. Going beyond our thought that we had enough mods for the number of people we have, if we had chosen just one, feelings would inevitably be hurt via our 'picking favorites'. Yes, I do remember the person mentioning that they would gladly retract their bid to be mod if it meant a certain other to be initiated as mod instead. *sigh*, I'm starting to get off topic.
What I find frustrating is how much this has seemed to turn into a power struggle. It has seemed way too much like it than it should have. Beth and I have this entire time been trying to make everything fair and coming up with ways in which to make it so. What's frustrating is that whenever we tried to explain or lay out what we had thought of in an effort to get -your- thoughts and input, we were greeting simply with a question in the rough form of "who died and make you in charge? why do -you- get to decide what's fair? if you want it to be fair, _______" and it instead turns into a battle of who should make the rules and why it isn't fair that Beth and I are trying to make them. *headdesk* would everyone please stop, take a step back and out of themselves and the situation, and look at what is going on?!? We want nothing more than to make everything fair and to do right by everyone with the RP that -we- were going to create, and it seems that the only thing people can think of is that they should be the ones in power. After running circles around this for many hours yesterday, we finally agree'd to just put it to a vote. We were going to vote on who was going to be the mods of the RP that Beth and I were creating.
It finally had become clear to us that we had lost, it was a lost cause to keep fighting about how the RP should be run, our thoughts and ideas hadn't been taken anyway. It hurt. We never wanted any of this to look like we had taken this power and let it get to us and wanted to bar all others from 'stealing' any of our power. We just wanted to start an RP with rules set in place to keep the whole mod thing to a minimum, where the mod status kind of stuff would be more like the actual LJ term 'maintainer'. We wanted to keep the mod as a maintainer of the community and all of that, not some almighty ruler who wave's the mighty scepter of modship and makes everything the way -they- want it. That mighty scepter of modship would be a complete last resort, everything would be handled first by the rules that -everyone- has a hand in creating and agreeing upon in the beginning, second by they comm as a whole, then the officials and mods, then finally a final decision by the mod(s). It's designed to hopefully never reach that point of course.
That 'officials' step is probably a little confusing to pretty much everyone XD Beth and I thought of it over lunch yesterday. The thought of having as few -mod- mods as possible, but still having people in charge. A sort of hierarchy kind of thing perhaps. The old way was all power or no power, no gray area or anything in between. There are many problems with that but the main one I'm considering here being that there's no way to have any sort of reward kind of system or a well organized committee even. With only mods and then everyone else, it's still just the mods making final decisions and wielding all power. The idea with officials or officers (the name isn't at all important, we can name it whatever it's decided to use it) is that each of them has their own little domain and/or set of jobs that they have their own full control over. An example could be advertising and promotion, with perhaps banner making and all that thrown in there. The person(s) in charge of that would be able to have full control and power over their area. They would have responsibility and power, but not full control. Again, we want as few people in "full" control as we can to ensure that it isn't abused and all that, again, the maintainer mindset. In decision making, the officials would have more say in matters than normal members. This reflects the sort of reward system and seniority elements as I explained before. Officials would have set jobs and/or domains where they have control. It helps break up and balance the power.
Well, anyway, In hindsight I think we should have just let Jewel be mod with us and avoided alll this craziness. The comm's would have been up and running by now. Yesterday was going to be uber focused RP building but ended up a debate -_-.
I just really wanted to get all that out. Thanks for putting up with it all. I'm sorry it's been so hectic and tense, but we just wanted to ensure the best RP experience possible and thought our way for the RP Beth and I were creating would work for the best by all.
Jewel requested I add this part. It builds upon the officials thought explained above:
I just had another thought
and it's similar to what you guys suggested last night
which is that, just say hypothetically that Beth, Ali, Sen, and I were a mod team
I would probably take the initiative to start polls and involve the community in decision making.. the social worker, if you will
Beth would probably make the site changes and the more technical stuff, with your help
Alli, as she has done, might make big posts about changes and such in the rp
and Sen might be interested in taking kind of a 'support' role
but all of us would be able to mod posts and talk to players about things, in such a way that no one has too much responsibility, and less to worry about
something would always be covered
like I said, I like compromise.. and if we can incorporate the ideas you and Beth had, with the democratic strategy.. it really might be something good.
She also requested this, discussing a possible revote for the comm:
Jewel: yeah, same
I'm for a re-vote if that's what you guys wanna do
it's totally understandable
me: a re-vote with you, ren, ali, beth and me? since those were the ones with any votes
Jewel: It's important to me that there are no hurt feelings or anything
sure
we can just tell the community it's round 2 XD
me: right
Jewel: due to complications