Suikoden III: finishing thoughts.
Finished Suikoden III yesterday, and because it pays to be a completionist in Suikoden games, got the full ending.
Daaaaaaaaamn.
I really did adore this game. I think Suikoden V is ultimately more relevant to my themes, and managed to engage me more narratively, but III is damned good, and the bonus content at the end you get if you manage to gather all the Stars of Destiny kicks the game into a whole other tier, if you ask me.
I was correct in that the tonal inconsistency and pacing issues fade considerably as the fourth chapter approaches, and once you select the Flame Champion, the game really picks up. The wacky characters largely fade into the background, though one cringingly-racist one appeared more often than I wanted him to. You also spend the first half of the fourth chapter getting your ass beaten by the Harmonian army, and I actually love that. I suppose it might be frustrating on a gameplay level because, well, gamers (myself included) like to win (and lord, there are so many virtually-unwinnable boss battles in this game, can I just say), but I love narratives where characters get stomped into the ground and have to push themselves to rise up again.
I didn't have to push myself quite as hard in the gameplay department, admittedly. I eventually scammed the lottery enough killed enough treasure bosses got rich enough that I could afford the best gear and sharpest weapons and maxed the fuck out of more characters' skills than I probably had to, which did admittedly help a lot in the strategy battles. Random encounters stopped being an issue around the time when Hugo got four attacks a turn, but the boss battles remained decently challenging to FUCK YOU FINAL BOSS. Said final boss did admittedly get easier when I realized that I couldn't use elemental magic until I destroyed the crystals corresponding to that element, but it involved a certain amount of trial-and-error and me saying "This is bullshit!"
On the other hand, I actually defeated Yuber and Luc and Sarah at the beginning of Chapter 4 -- it turned into Geddoe and Sarah having what amounted to a magical slap-battle with me alternately cheering Geddoe on and screaming obscenities at Sarah -- and I managed to beat the Water Dragon without being cheap and using a Pale Gate Rune, so I feel quite content about the size of my imaginary gamer penis. :D
Also, the True Lightning Rune is my best fucking friend. Never leave me, True Lightning Rune -- oh wait, you do at the beginning of Chapter 5, shit. Viki, or at least the ability to teleport, is my second best friend, because traveling through the same dungeons over and over to get to the same places does get old. I feel really bad for anyone who didn't manage to get Viki, though.
Anyway, pertaining to story: Hugo was my Flame Champion, because it's canon, and because his story is the one that needs that arc the most to feel complete and satisfying. I don't know if he'd have gotten the same kind of development if I hadn't picked him. That being said, I want to replay or at least track down cutscenes for the Chris and Geddoe versions, because I missed them. And because I feel freaking cheated out of some of the content I had to miss when Hugo had sole PoV (KONAMI, WHY IS THE SCENE WITH CHRIS AND HER FATHER INSIDE THE WATER RUNE NOT IN ALL THE VERSIONS).
Chris, as I mentioned last time, had my heart from the beginning, but Geddoe and the 12th grew on me the most, and oh god everything about them in Chapter 5 broke my heart in the best ways. ♥ (And on a storytelling level, I kind of love how Chris and Hugo recover fairly quickly from having their True Runes taken away, but Geddoe is completely wracked with pain and I want fic of him slowly starting to notice himself weakening SO BADLY.) Jacques and Aila are the cutest, Ace's terrible fantasy-pulp novels are the best things ever, and I love the glimpses we get into Joker's and Queen's backstories. I might have to play through the last chapters with Geddoe as my FC just to see his ending, because he and the rest of the 12th just kind of fuck off in Hugo's version of it.
Which brings me to a note about the endings, or at least the little character-blurbs that flash across the screen -- a lot of them amount to "the characters keep doing what they've been doing," and I found that a narrative letdown, particularly in Franz's case. I love me some Suzaku archetypes, but it seemed like he had a moment in the game when he went "shit, trying to achieve change within the system isn't working because these guys are assholes," and then...apparently that never happened, because he goes back to doing what he was doing? Disappointing.
What was not disappointing was getting Luc's PoV at the end. Holy shit. Wow. Now, Mith may sport the biggest Albert Silverboner in the world, and he's damn entertaining, but Luc. Luc, sweetie. In retrospect, it's not terribly surprising that I fell so hard for him -- I love idealists, and Luc is one, in his own way -- but that was a magnificent gutpunch. Boy is a textbook Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, and there are questions about fate and what measure is a human being and the moments where he has doubts and glimmers of the humanity he doesn't think he possesses but still refuses to turn back. Augh. It's a narrative-kink buttonmash. I still have a lot of problems with Sarah and her plot device powers and her lack of character definition beyond her devotion to A Dude, but her final scene with Luc was remarkably touching nonetheless.
And yes, I still want Nash and Chris to make out. And, like. Complicated political postgame shenanigans with them where they have to not only wrangle their own relationship but the relationship between their countries, and seriously can there be a scene after Chris gets the True Water Rune where they talk? Because Nash is one of the ones who gets it best? Actually, can there be a scene with Geddoe and Hugo and Chris talking about that shit, too?
(The scene before the final battle with all the knights swearing oaths to Chris, though? And Borus owning up to what he did? And Salome with the "I made my oaths a long time ago"? PERFECT. PERFECTLY PERFECT.)
...the list of fic I want to see keeps growing the more I think about it, which probably means I should write some of it, and cajole Mith into writing the rest I mean.
Overall: Shit did indeed get real. Gameplay, for a substantial part, provided enough of a challenge to keep me interested. The game starts off slow and pulls back from its most narratively compelling material at first (and places a few too many wacky characters and escort missions in your path), but improves dramatically as it goes on, and the characters themselves are (mostly) quite compelling. The fixed camera angle is awful and the graphics aren't as fancy as those in other JRPGs of its generation, but the world still manages to have a lot of visual detail and interest. And the Trinity Sight system gives it replay value.
It's a well-drawn world, and once this game draws you in, it draws you in good.
and yes I know this is a Gizel icon, but I don't have any III ones yet.
.
Daaaaaaaaamn.
I really did adore this game. I think Suikoden V is ultimately more relevant to my themes, and managed to engage me more narratively, but III is damned good, and the bonus content at the end you get if you manage to gather all the Stars of Destiny kicks the game into a whole other tier, if you ask me.
I was correct in that the tonal inconsistency and pacing issues fade considerably as the fourth chapter approaches, and once you select the Flame Champion, the game really picks up. The wacky characters largely fade into the background, though one cringingly-racist one appeared more often than I wanted him to. You also spend the first half of the fourth chapter getting your ass beaten by the Harmonian army, and I actually love that. I suppose it might be frustrating on a gameplay level because, well, gamers (myself included) like to win (and lord, there are so many virtually-unwinnable boss battles in this game, can I just say), but I love narratives where characters get stomped into the ground and have to push themselves to rise up again.
I didn't have to push myself quite as hard in the gameplay department, admittedly. I eventually scammed the lottery enough killed enough treasure bosses got rich enough that I could afford the best gear and sharpest weapons and maxed the fuck out of more characters' skills than I probably had to, which did admittedly help a lot in the strategy battles. Random encounters stopped being an issue around the time when Hugo got four attacks a turn, but the boss battles remained decently challenging to FUCK YOU FINAL BOSS. Said final boss did admittedly get easier when I realized that I couldn't use elemental magic until I destroyed the crystals corresponding to that element, but it involved a certain amount of trial-and-error and me saying "This is bullshit!"
On the other hand, I actually defeated Yuber and Luc and Sarah at the beginning of Chapter 4 -- it turned into Geddoe and Sarah having what amounted to a magical slap-battle with me alternately cheering Geddoe on and screaming obscenities at Sarah -- and I managed to beat the Water Dragon without being cheap and using a Pale Gate Rune, so I feel quite content about the size of my imaginary gamer penis. :D
Also, the True Lightning Rune is my best fucking friend. Never leave me, True Lightning Rune -- oh wait, you do at the beginning of Chapter 5, shit. Viki, or at least the ability to teleport, is my second best friend, because traveling through the same dungeons over and over to get to the same places does get old. I feel really bad for anyone who didn't manage to get Viki, though.
Anyway, pertaining to story: Hugo was my Flame Champion, because it's canon, and because his story is the one that needs that arc the most to feel complete and satisfying. I don't know if he'd have gotten the same kind of development if I hadn't picked him. That being said, I want to replay or at least track down cutscenes for the Chris and Geddoe versions, because I missed them. And because I feel freaking cheated out of some of the content I had to miss when Hugo had sole PoV (KONAMI, WHY IS THE SCENE WITH CHRIS AND HER FATHER INSIDE THE WATER RUNE NOT IN ALL THE VERSIONS).
Chris, as I mentioned last time, had my heart from the beginning, but Geddoe and the 12th grew on me the most, and oh god everything about them in Chapter 5 broke my heart in the best ways. ♥ (And on a storytelling level, I kind of love how Chris and Hugo recover fairly quickly from having their True Runes taken away, but Geddoe is completely wracked with pain and I want fic of him slowly starting to notice himself weakening SO BADLY.) Jacques and Aila are the cutest, Ace's terrible fantasy-pulp novels are the best things ever, and I love the glimpses we get into Joker's and Queen's backstories. I might have to play through the last chapters with Geddoe as my FC just to see his ending, because he and the rest of the 12th just kind of fuck off in Hugo's version of it.
Which brings me to a note about the endings, or at least the little character-blurbs that flash across the screen -- a lot of them amount to "the characters keep doing what they've been doing," and I found that a narrative letdown, particularly in Franz's case. I love me some Suzaku archetypes, but it seemed like he had a moment in the game when he went "shit, trying to achieve change within the system isn't working because these guys are assholes," and then...apparently that never happened, because he goes back to doing what he was doing? Disappointing.
What was not disappointing was getting Luc's PoV at the end. Holy shit. Wow. Now, Mith may sport the biggest Albert Silverboner in the world, and he's damn entertaining, but Luc. Luc, sweetie. In retrospect, it's not terribly surprising that I fell so hard for him -- I love idealists, and Luc is one, in his own way -- but that was a magnificent gutpunch. Boy is a textbook Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, and there are questions about fate and what measure is a human being and the moments where he has doubts and glimmers of the humanity he doesn't think he possesses but still refuses to turn back. Augh. It's a narrative-kink buttonmash. I still have a lot of problems with Sarah and her plot device powers and her lack of character definition beyond her devotion to A Dude, but her final scene with Luc was remarkably touching nonetheless.
And yes, I still want Nash and Chris to make out. And, like. Complicated political postgame shenanigans with them where they have to not only wrangle their own relationship but the relationship between their countries, and seriously can there be a scene after Chris gets the True Water Rune where they talk? Because Nash is one of the ones who gets it best? Actually, can there be a scene with Geddoe and Hugo and Chris talking about that shit, too?
(The scene before the final battle with all the knights swearing oaths to Chris, though? And Borus owning up to what he did? And Salome with the "I made my oaths a long time ago"? PERFECT. PERFECTLY PERFECT.)
...the list of fic I want to see keeps growing the more I think about it, which probably means I should write some of it, and cajole Mith into writing the rest I mean.
Overall: Shit did indeed get real. Gameplay, for a substantial part, provided enough of a challenge to keep me interested. The game starts off slow and pulls back from its most narratively compelling material at first (and places a few too many wacky characters and escort missions in your path), but improves dramatically as it goes on, and the characters themselves are (mostly) quite compelling. The fixed camera angle is awful and the graphics aren't as fancy as those in other JRPGs of its generation, but the world still manages to have a lot of visual detail and interest. And the Trinity Sight system gives it replay value.
It's a well-drawn world, and once this game draws you in, it draws you in good.
and yes I know this is a Gizel icon, but I don't have any III ones yet.
.