Re: Cast Out the Spirit of Deceit and RejectionsamfuApril 25 2005, 06:38:49 UTC
This is a powerful and amazing thing that I experienced this weekend and it really helped me grow and be able to move past some road blocks.
Perhaps you should review a concept known as a placebo. More specifically the so called "placebo effect". What you have experienced (I'm assuming that the retreat you went on was similar to ones that I attended as an impressionable youth) is a strongly suggestive and (in my humble opinion) dangerous form of brain washing. Such a coarse term, and you'll certainly shrug it off as me attacking you. Nevertheless that is the case. Think about what you're suggesting. You're suggesting that someone can feel better by trusting something else will take care of their problems. Of course that's the case! But it's nothing mystical, and certainly has nothing to do with God other than the fact that his is the persona that is used as a focus.
Satan has a stronghold in you through those emotions, and to be able to move on and fully trust God, you need to get ride of those thoughts satan is deceiving and tempting you with.
This is so ludicrous I don't know where to begin. Satan does not control your emotions. Show me a location in the new testament (I say not because I think there is a location in the old, but because to quote the old testament is to accept it and there are things in the old testament that no Christian should accept) where Satan controls emotions and I'll go to church again. Stop spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt on people who are already in an emotionally vulnerable place. If your arguments truly hold merit than you should be able to express them without the need for these petty scare tactics.
I suppose that I could respond to your final paragraph as well, but I've already written more than I intended. Furthermore, I don't know the speaker that you're referring to and it would be improper for me to comment without knowing what you're referring to in it's entirety. I will say that a witty fable or anecdote proves nothing, and therefore don't have a place in intelligent discourse though.
Although I don't know you personally, I would like to suggest that you exercise some critical thinking in your life. This is a trait that is sorely lacking in a majority of professed Christians and frankly, the majority of self-professed spiritual people irregardless of specific theological beliefs.
I'm sorry I offended youarizonigirlApril 25 2005, 14:38:13 UTC
Hi Sam,
I am sorry that I offended you in my letter to your sister. However, I do believe that every min of every day we are in a spiritual battle. I believe that Satan uses past hurts to get you to focus on yourself instead of God, which is a sin. I wanted to share the peace I have acheived with your sister, my really good friend. I have been in her shoes - in fact, twice in five months. I know what hurt is, I know what confusion is, I know what questioning if God has a plan for is all about. But I also now know that when I stopped focusing on myself, on my pain and my questions, but instead gave it all over to God, His peace which transcends all human understanding overflowed in me. Sure, I still feel bad sometimes, but when I start to focus on myself, and in a sense "pity" myself, I pray that God would remove those feelings in me. Satan can use anything you feel to get you to forsake God - He's the ultimate deceiver. So by praying for removal of any sort of deceiving spirits, I simply am praying for protection.
You may not believe any of this - you don't need to. It's real whether or not you say it is.
I am glad that you care so much for your sister and I want you to know that I care just as much for her too - I hate to see her hurt, and I know what that can be like. I just want to help her, and so I'm sharing with her what helped me.
Re: I'm sorry I offended yousamfuApril 25 2005, 20:26:28 UTC
I am sorry that I offended you in my letter to your sister.
You didn't offend me per-say, you just made a fool of yourself (in my opinion).
However, I do believe that every min of every day we are in a spiritual battle. I believe that Satan uses past hurts to get you to focus on yourself instead of God, which is a sin.
If that's the case, every moment of your life you aren't kneeling (and probably some moments that you are) is a sin. Be realistic, and stop this pathetic self-loathing. Focusing on yourself is not a sin. Show me which of the ten commandments says it is and I'll return to church. (warning: gross generalization ahead) Christians like to make everything a sin, when its pretty freaking clearly laid out in their most holy of holy books what sins are. In the new testament, it's almost all Jesus followers (dude's with agendas) that are warning of specific sins. Jesus himself is pretty clear that if you believe in him as your lord and savior you'll be on a train to H-town.
I know what hurt is, I know what confusion is, I know what questioning if God has a plan for is all about. But I also now know that when I stopped focusing on myself, on my pain and my questions, but instead gave it all over to God, His peace which transcends all human understanding overflowed in me.
I already mentioned this. If you feel you can lie to yourself and that helps you...fine! I wish that I could live in such ignorance, honestly I do. I've always believed that "Ignorance is bliss" in the immortal words of Joe Pantoliano as Cypher. There's no arguing that believing in a massively powerful being that can take all your cares away is comforting.
Satan can use anything you feel to get you to forsake God - He's the ultimate deceiver. So by praying for removal of any sort of deceiving spirits, I simply am praying for protection.
Why doesn't God protect you to bigin with?
You may not believe any of this - you don't need to. It's real whether or not you say it is.
There's no evidence whatsoever that its real. You're simply believing what others have told you, without thinking about it for yourself. You're not even rationalizing it. You're just repeating the mantra of this mystical battle that's occuring.
This needs to stoparizonigirlApril 25 2005, 20:41:40 UTC
Sam - It seems that you have a serious grudge against the church, but even so, that does not give you the authority to attack what I believe. I never initiated this with you, but was talking to your sister. So let's discontinue this conversation. Thank you.
Re: This needs to stopsamfuApril 25 2005, 21:19:42 UTC
My grudge is against people who don't think for themselves and try and spread their ignorance on others, not against the church. You don't know about my history with "the church" (whatever that means), and you don't even know what my religious beliefs are.
Start thinking critically and stop making a bad name for Christians.
Perhaps you should review a concept known as a placebo. More specifically the so called "placebo effect". What you have experienced (I'm assuming that the retreat you went on was similar to ones that I attended as an impressionable youth) is a strongly suggestive and (in my humble opinion) dangerous form of brain washing. Such a coarse term, and you'll certainly shrug it off as me attacking you. Nevertheless that is the case. Think about what you're suggesting. You're suggesting that someone can feel better by trusting something else will take care of their problems. Of course that's the case! But it's nothing mystical, and certainly has nothing to do with God other than the fact that his is the persona that is used as a focus.
Satan has a stronghold in you through those emotions, and to be able to move on and fully trust God, you need to get ride of those thoughts satan is deceiving and tempting you with.
This is so ludicrous I don't know where to begin. Satan does not control your emotions. Show me a location in the new testament (I say not because I think there is a location in the old, but because to quote the old testament is to accept it and there are things in the old testament that no Christian should accept) where Satan controls emotions and I'll go to church again. Stop spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt on people who are already in an emotionally vulnerable place. If your arguments truly hold merit than you should be able to express them without the need for these petty scare tactics.
I suppose that I could respond to your final paragraph as well, but I've already written more than I intended. Furthermore, I don't know the speaker that you're referring to and it would be improper for me to comment without knowing what you're referring to in it's entirety. I will say that a witty fable or anecdote proves nothing, and therefore don't have a place in intelligent discourse though.
Although I don't know you personally, I would like to suggest that you exercise some critical thinking in your life. This is a trait that is sorely lacking in a majority of professed Christians and frankly, the majority of self-professed spiritual people irregardless of specific theological beliefs.
Reply
I am sorry that I offended you in my letter to your sister. However, I do believe that every min of every day we are in a spiritual battle. I believe that Satan uses past hurts to get you to focus on yourself instead of God, which is a sin. I wanted to share the peace I have acheived with your sister, my really good friend. I have been in her shoes - in fact, twice in five months. I know what hurt is, I know what confusion is, I know what questioning if God has a plan for is all about. But I also now know that when I stopped focusing on myself, on my pain and my questions, but instead gave it all over to God, His peace which transcends all human understanding overflowed in me. Sure, I still feel bad sometimes, but when I start to focus on myself, and in a sense "pity" myself, I pray that God would remove those feelings in me. Satan can use anything you feel to get you to forsake God - He's the ultimate deceiver. So by praying for removal of any sort of deceiving spirits, I simply am praying for protection.
You may not believe any of this - you don't need to. It's real whether or not you say it is.
I am glad that you care so much for your sister and I want you to know that I care just as much for her too - I hate to see her hurt, and I know what that can be like. I just want to help her, and so I'm sharing with her what helped me.
Reply
You didn't offend me per-say, you just made a fool of yourself (in my opinion).
However, I do believe that every min of every day we are in a spiritual battle. I believe that Satan uses past hurts to get you to focus on yourself instead of God, which is a sin.
If that's the case, every moment of your life you aren't kneeling (and probably some moments that you are) is a sin. Be realistic, and stop this pathetic self-loathing. Focusing on yourself is not a sin. Show me which of the ten commandments says it is and I'll return to church. (warning: gross generalization ahead) Christians like to make everything a sin, when its pretty freaking clearly laid out in their most holy of holy books what sins are. In the new testament, it's almost all Jesus followers (dude's with agendas) that are warning of specific sins. Jesus himself is pretty clear that if you believe in him as your lord and savior you'll be on a train to H-town.
I know what hurt is, I know what confusion is, I know what questioning if God has a plan for is all about. But I also now know that when I stopped focusing on myself, on my pain and my questions, but instead gave it all over to God, His peace which transcends all human understanding overflowed in me.
I already mentioned this. If you feel you can lie to yourself and that helps you...fine! I wish that I could live in such ignorance, honestly I do. I've always believed that "Ignorance is bliss" in the immortal words of Joe Pantoliano as Cypher. There's no arguing that believing in a massively powerful being that can take all your cares away is comforting.
Satan can use anything you feel to get you to forsake God - He's the ultimate deceiver. So by praying for removal of any sort of deceiving spirits, I simply am praying for protection.
Why doesn't God protect you to bigin with?
You may not believe any of this - you don't need to. It's real whether or not you say it is.
There's no evidence whatsoever that its real. You're simply believing what others have told you, without thinking about it for yourself. You're not even rationalizing it. You're just repeating the mantra of this mystical battle that's occuring.
Reply
Reply
Start thinking critically and stop making a bad name for Christians.
Reply
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