in the minority of the decent

Sep 09, 2007 15:22

After McLaughlin Group this morning was a show running a story about U.S. soldiers in the military raping other U.S. soldiers. After some initial statistics that were woefully unsurprising and some first-hand accounts, came a particular story of a soldier assaulted by a man she had probably called a friend. After all, they played sports together ( Read more... )

venting, feminism

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"warning"? what's that supposed to mean? star999chick September 11 2007, 14:35:40 UTC
Wow, both of you extrapolated a whole lot from a very very simple (and personal) comment.

I actually didn't say anything about anyone's husband, and drawing that hyper-defensive parallel wasn't really needed. But I think comparing a the level of trust in a marraige and the level of trust in a casual aquaintance is sort of a wee bit on the spurious side.

I'm not blaming her, I'm just saying that when you feel uncomfortable belonging to a gender that is so ready to rape an innocent (you'll note I referred to her as innocent) woman, I feel uncomfortable belonging to a gender that is surprised when it happens, or trusts the person when they shouldn't. I didn't say anything about child marraige so I'm not sure where you got that from. It's exactly that fanatical, accusatory rhetoric that makes me annoyed with feminists for the most part.

I have a friend who's in the army. I'm not sure what the training area is referred to, but he said he'd never let me go out there. Why? Because of the guys.

How sexist!

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Re: "warning"? what's that supposed to mean? psiradish September 12 2007, 00:52:18 UTC
Warning means I will delete any posts containing victim-blaming in the future.

And the hell you aren't blaming her. Telling someone who's been victimized "You should have been more careful" is blaming the victim. If she had just been smarter (read: psychic) it would not have happened. Not a word about the fucking rapist; the victim's supposed stupidity is somehow more relevant to the crime than the rapist's conscious decision to commit it. It's her fault for not being careful enough; for not acquiescing to be a second-class citizen and voluntarily sacrificing - without any rational necessity - enough of her right to the pursuit of happiness as she defines it; which should include the ability to trust people who in every way possible seem trustworthy not to rape her. ...Actually, no, I take that back. It should include the ability to trust complete strangers not to rape her. Since when did rape become such a casual crime that we can expect it of anybody ( ... )

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Re: "warning"? what's that supposed to mean? star999chick September 12 2007, 13:41:23 UTC
Nothing says "I'm secure in my viewpoint" like silencing a dissenting opinion. Classy ( ... )

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Re: "warning"? what's that supposed to mean? psiradish September 19 2007, 10:37:09 UTC
(multi-post response)
It's silencing an unacceptably harmful opinion. It's suppressing an infectious disease. You are speaking to everyone who ever hears or reads your words, wherever spoken or written. Some of those people may have been victims, and some may become victims in the future, and some may interact with victims, or interact with someone who will interact with a victim. However many carriers it passes through, the virus eventually reaches a victim, and there it causes nothing but hurt. Months later, years later, decades later, they're still hearing, "It's your fault." So they blame themselves. They hate themselves. Some, doubtlessly, even kill themselves.

But there are the few who supposedly avoid being victims by taking this hateful "should have known better" rhetoric to heart in time to restrict themselves from going to certain places, interacting with certain people, doing certain things, etc., etc., before it gets them in trouble. Meanwhile, they must watch as their male friends do all these same things with ( ... )

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Re: "warning"? what's that supposed to mean? psiradish September 19 2007, 10:37:39 UTC
Both these ways of thinking are only supported - if not partly created - by a prevailing attitude that a woman expecting until provided evidence to the contrary (and not considering possession of a penis alone to be evidence) that any individual person will possess a sufficiently basic notion of personal accountability and consideration for others not to casually subject another human being to prolonged suffering just for their own sexual gratification, is herself, in whole or in part, at fault if someone takes advantage of that reasonable expectation in an attempt to do exactly that to her. Certainly a man who's chosen to commit rape will be comforted - if not convinced to do the crime in the first place - by a little devil on his shoulder echoing, "She should have been more careful." Possibly followed by its own addition of, "Stupid bitch."

Victim-blaming helps perpetuate rape. It is a virus that persists in spite of reason, clung to by one chowderhead after another even as their last argument has been expended, and no amount of ( ... )

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Re: "warning"? what's that supposed to mean? psiradish September 19 2007, 10:38:47 UTC
Do not begrudge other women the ability to trust where you cannot. It is not a crime. It is not a flaw. The risks aside, it should be something to envy. And the risks shouldn't exist in the first place, and moreover don't have to. The pervasive threat of rape is just as much a social construct as your standards for appropriate carefulness in avoiding it. If your friend in the army openly refused to have any social interaction with the misogynists on base, and wasn't the only one to do it; if, in fact, this was the reaction of the majority of the soldiers, including those in the same unit, to their depravity, and to anyone willing to tolerate it; you know they would shape up, or get the hell out. And if they met this same attitude everywhere else they went - mass social ostracism and ridicule to all rapists and their apologists, and anyone willing to associate with the unreformed of either - then you know men everywhere would shape up, or reveal themselves as the parasites in citizen's clothing that some of them really are ( ... )

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Re: "warning"? what's that supposed to mean? star999chick September 19 2007, 13:40:39 UTC
That first "virus" analogy is again, so over the top I won't even touch it.

Money should rain out of the sky, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to behave as if it does. I also think it's pretty unreasonable that you - male, and unable to actually understand what it's really like to be female - are telling me how I should be feeling about women's issues. How many times have you felt you're at risk? Because I can tell you that even most dumb, niave, and trusting as hell women have still felt scared or nervous about the prospect at least once.

Don't begrudge me for having a concern for my own safety.

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Re: "warning"? what's that supposed to mean? psiradish September 25 2007, 03:21:12 UTC
I don't begrudge anything of the sort. I'm not telling anybody to stop being scared. That would be unconscionably insensitive and stupid and, well, victim-blaming. I'm telling them (and you) to stop telling other people there's something wrong with them if they're not, or weren't, scared; or scared enough by your standards. And I'm asking you not to consent (passively or otherwise) to future generations of women having to live under the same fear you do.

Your money example isn't such a good one, actually, since a vital part of the whole system of currency is that it require more effort to obtain than placing a bucket outside whenever the weather reports indicate a high chance of financial gain. But ignoring that... If somehow money raining from the sky could be predicted with absolute certainty to be a good thing, then yeah, it should happen; impossible though it may be. The bigger if, though: if it also weren't impossible, and there was something (non-harmful) we could do to make money rain from the sky, then we should do it ( ... )

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