Veganism: Honey, milk, wool & being alternative (kinky boots)
27 August 2004: Got guilt? By Rebecca Clarren "Dairy workers grub for minimum wage in sickening manure pits -- so American consumers can have cheap milk and cheese" :-/ I wonder if this is/was true?
---
Many people believe that animals raised for food must be treated well because sick or dead animals would be of no use to agribusiness. This is not true.
-- Vegan Outreach: Factory Farms (really clear, well-written article, but it did make me cry)
=====
=====
On consciences...
"It is all very well to say that individuals must wrestle with their consciences--but only if their consciences are awake and informed. Industrial society, alas, hides animals' suffering.
For modern animal agriculture, the less the consumer knows about what's happening before the meat hits the plate, the better.
If true, is this an ethical situation? Should we be reluctant to let people know what really goes on, because we're not really proud of it and concerned that it might turn them to vegetarianism?"
-- http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/
Urg, I don't want to "cause trouble" & be one of those annoying people who goes on about it, but I guess I do kind of believe this. Hrm. What do you think?
Ah, now *this* I can get behind! :D
"Ultimately, living with compassion means striving to maximize the good we accomplish, not following a set of rules or trying to fit a certain label. From eating less meat to being vegan, our actions are only a means to an end: decreasing suffering.
For this reason, we believe that the consequences of our actions should guide our choices. Oftentimes, there's more to consider than whether or not an item is completely animal-free. For example, it can be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to shun every minor or hidden animal-derived ingredient. More importantly, avoiding an ever-increasing list of these ingredients can make us appear obsessive and lead others to believe that compassionate living is impossible. This defeats our purpose: ending cruelty to animals!
Our desire to oppose and help end cruelty to animals can help guide our choices, as well as provide a simple, easy-to-understand explanation of our actions. The question isn't, "Is this vegan?" but, "What is best for preventing suffering?"
[...]
Instead of expecting others to change immediately, we need to be understanding, giving everyone time to consider the realities of factory farms on their own time and within their unique situations. Burning bridges with anger only serves to create enemies and feed the stereotype that vegans are self-righteous.
Although it may be tempting to get into arguments about our prehistoric ancestors' diet, the simplest statement can be the most powerful: "I know that I don't want to suffer. Therefore, I don't want to cause others to suffer."
As long as we remain respectful, our positive example and the information we provide will ultimately be the best voice for the animals."
-- http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/beingvegan.html
Yes, decreasing suffering is sort of the aim for me; but actually the reason *I'm* vegan is because I don't want to be involved in causing suffering to animals.
"To me, saying 'I'm vegan' is synonymous with saying, 'I have decided to live a lifestyle that does not support animal exploitation.'"
-- http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/definingvegan.html
That's all.
=====
=====
--
bondablecorpse expressed some curiosity about why I think it's important (for me!) to avoid using (or buying) honey & wool, so here are some links, as promised, for you & for me.
I dislike "going on" about veganism & animal cruelty, but people tend to assume that milk, honey & wool are all obtained "naturally" (whatever that means...!) & without pain or cruelty (I used to think this too until I started looking into veganism; I'm not judging you).
I like responding to genuine curiosity.
I find it difficult to respond to curiosity when it's mixed in with jokes - as happens at work fairly often. I've now taken to just making that statement & then letting people decide which avenue they want to go down. If they don't choose, then I respond with bits & pieces, but tend not to give away much.
Oh, and I choose what I find acceptable for me & the best term to cover that is veganism. I didn't choose the term veganism & then try and shoe-horn my beliefs & practices into definitions presented by other people. So, if veganism ends up meaning something I disagree with, no, that doesn't mean I'll automatically stop doing it.
So, if you want to read about it, you can & if you don't, don't :)
Oh, and chiselwright, for you...
Can vegans breast-feed? (Or swallow, deep kiss etc etc)
Some quotations I agree with...
Oh, and bondablecorpse, for you...
Where should it end?
I often talk of "my veganism". I don't impose my personal choices on other people. I expect other people not to impose their personal choices on me either. Which includes food. :)
Often non-vegans (including vegetarians) see veganism as an extreme choice. Sometimes I feel it's extreme, I feel that way because non-veganism is so dominant in most cultures (hence I often feel "extreme" for some of my other lifestyle choices, e.g. pansexuality (imnsho, having a pansexual lifestyle is a choice, having pansexual desires isn't), polyamory etc etc). However, it's about what I'm comfortable with - almost every diet has restrictions, it's about choosing which restrictions (if any) you're happy with.
For me, a raw food diet is "too extreme" and a vegetarian diet is "not extreme enough", but that's just what's right *for me*. (Although, see above, under "On consciences...").
"I enjoy food too much to be a vegetarian [...] I just don't want to limit my options for ideology or politics." (link) To me, this doesn't make sense. Ideologies necessarily affect one's choices & decisions. I think what is really the case is that they value the enjoyment of food over whatever issues they see with eating meat. Which is fine, your ideology is not my ideology, but your ideology is okay ;) Once I found out about animal cruelty stuff, there wasn't really any question about whether I'd become vegan or not even though I had significant doubts. It wasn't easy becoming vegan, but it would have been impossible not to do it :)
Anyways, see below on honey, milk & wool for some of the reasons why veganism is not too extreme for me!
Honey
"Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic... When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed."
- Vegan Soceity: Bee Farming
More links on Honey:
Milk
"Corporate-owned factories where cows are warehoused in huge sheds [...] have replaced most small family farms. With genetic manipulation and intensive production technologies, it is common for modern dairy cows to produce 100 pounds of milk a day- 10 times more than they would produce in nature. [...] Growth hormones and unnatural milking schedules cause dairy cows' udders to become painful and so heavy that they sometimes drag on the ground, resulting in frequent infections and overuse of antibiotics."
-- Milk Sucks
"Today's mother cows are treated like milk machines-chained by their necks in concrete stalls for months at a time, their udders are swollen so large that they sometimes drag on the ground. Cows give milk for the same reasons humans do-for their babies. To keep milk production high, cows are kept pregnant, and their male calves are taken away at 1 to 2 days old and chained inside cramped dark crates to be killed for veal. The milk-nature meant for them ends up on our supermarket shelves instead."
-- Got veal?
More links on Milk:
Wool
Boots & clothes
I thought it would be really hard to find vegan thigh high boots but looks like there are loads, even ones I like the look of :O Woo!
* I really don't like PETA when it comes to their activism - I think some of the stuff they do is useful & helpful, but I don't like the way they try to guilt-trip people & stuff. Urg, conflict. Anyways, they do have more life-affirming, *positive* resources too - see the link.
Okay, I don't want to read about this stuff any more :( If you want more info; Google is your friend.
** Perhaps instead of defining a vegan as "someone who does not use animal products", we should define a vegan as "someone who reasonably avoids products that cause suffering to nonhumans."
-- http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/qa.html#insects
Which is where I start to feel like using the word "vegan" to describe myself is a bit silly, because I reasonably avoid products that cause suffering to *humans* too (and before animals). However, describing myself as a vegan is useful in terms of explaining a lot of my food, clothing & lifestyle choices; especially as often people are against suffering *without* being vegan. So, I'll continue to use it, whilst expressing that I'm against human suffering too.
Phew.
---
Many people believe that animals raised for food must be treated well because sick or dead animals would be of no use to agribusiness. This is not true.
-- Vegan Outreach: Factory Farms (really clear, well-written article, but it did make me cry)
=====
=====
On consciences...
"It is all very well to say that individuals must wrestle with their consciences--but only if their consciences are awake and informed. Industrial society, alas, hides animals' suffering.
For modern animal agriculture, the less the consumer knows about what's happening before the meat hits the plate, the better.
If true, is this an ethical situation? Should we be reluctant to let people know what really goes on, because we're not really proud of it and concerned that it might turn them to vegetarianism?"
-- http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/
Urg, I don't want to "cause trouble" & be one of those annoying people who goes on about it, but I guess I do kind of believe this. Hrm. What do you think?
Ah, now *this* I can get behind! :D
"Ultimately, living with compassion means striving to maximize the good we accomplish, not following a set of rules or trying to fit a certain label. From eating less meat to being vegan, our actions are only a means to an end: decreasing suffering.
For this reason, we believe that the consequences of our actions should guide our choices. Oftentimes, there's more to consider than whether or not an item is completely animal-free. For example, it can be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to shun every minor or hidden animal-derived ingredient. More importantly, avoiding an ever-increasing list of these ingredients can make us appear obsessive and lead others to believe that compassionate living is impossible. This defeats our purpose: ending cruelty to animals!
Our desire to oppose and help end cruelty to animals can help guide our choices, as well as provide a simple, easy-to-understand explanation of our actions. The question isn't, "Is this vegan?" but, "What is best for preventing suffering?"
[...]
Instead of expecting others to change immediately, we need to be understanding, giving everyone time to consider the realities of factory farms on their own time and within their unique situations. Burning bridges with anger only serves to create enemies and feed the stereotype that vegans are self-righteous.
Although it may be tempting to get into arguments about our prehistoric ancestors' diet, the simplest statement can be the most powerful: "I know that I don't want to suffer. Therefore, I don't want to cause others to suffer."
As long as we remain respectful, our positive example and the information we provide will ultimately be the best voice for the animals."
-- http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/beingvegan.html
Yes, decreasing suffering is sort of the aim for me; but actually the reason *I'm* vegan is because I don't want to be involved in causing suffering to animals.
"To me, saying 'I'm vegan' is synonymous with saying, 'I have decided to live a lifestyle that does not support animal exploitation.'"
-- http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/definingvegan.html
That's all.
=====
=====
--
bondablecorpse expressed some curiosity about why I think it's important (for me!) to avoid using (or buying) honey & wool, so here are some links, as promised, for you & for me.
I dislike "going on" about veganism & animal cruelty, but people tend to assume that milk, honey & wool are all obtained "naturally" (whatever that means...!) & without pain or cruelty (I used to think this too until I started looking into veganism; I'm not judging you).
I like responding to genuine curiosity.
I find it difficult to respond to curiosity when it's mixed in with jokes - as happens at work fairly often. I've now taken to just making that statement & then letting people decide which avenue they want to go down. If they don't choose, then I respond with bits & pieces, but tend not to give away much.
Oh, and I choose what I find acceptable for me & the best term to cover that is veganism. I didn't choose the term veganism & then try and shoe-horn my beliefs & practices into definitions presented by other people. So, if veganism ends up meaning something I disagree with, no, that doesn't mean I'll automatically stop doing it.
So, if you want to read about it, you can & if you don't, don't :)
Oh, and chiselwright, for you...
Can vegans breast-feed? (Or swallow, deep kiss etc etc)
Some quotations I agree with...
- while "eating no animal products" is the primary battle-cry of vegans, it is, in fact an oversimplification of their beliefs". link
- I think veganism is a more complex belief system than "no animal products." Also, since veganism is a modern phenomenon and is partially a reaction to the modern agricultural practices, product is the operative word in the case of breast milk. (I know I'm the one who added the word product, but it's important). Mothers aren't, for the most part, productizing their milk. I suspect vegans would take issue with that, if it were happening. link
- I'm baffled by people who claim breast-milk isn't vegan. Veganism is a lifestyle of compassion for sentient creatures, and vegans choose their foods in such a way as to avoid contributing to the death, suffering, or exploitation of animals. "No animal products" is merely a convenient shorthand for explaining dietary restrictions to non-vegans. Of course vegan mothers may breastfeed their vegan children. What could be more compassionate? link
- Defining 'Vegan' - an interesting article, shame it's so preachy though
Oh, and bondablecorpse, for you...
Where should it end?
I often talk of "my veganism". I don't impose my personal choices on other people. I expect other people not to impose their personal choices on me either. Which includes food. :)
Often non-vegans (including vegetarians) see veganism as an extreme choice. Sometimes I feel it's extreme, I feel that way because non-veganism is so dominant in most cultures (hence I often feel "extreme" for some of my other lifestyle choices, e.g. pansexuality (imnsho, having a pansexual lifestyle is a choice, having pansexual desires isn't), polyamory etc etc). However, it's about what I'm comfortable with - almost every diet has restrictions, it's about choosing which restrictions (if any) you're happy with.
For me, a raw food diet is "too extreme" and a vegetarian diet is "not extreme enough", but that's just what's right *for me*. (Although, see above, under "On consciences...").
"I enjoy food too much to be a vegetarian [...] I just don't want to limit my options for ideology or politics." (link) To me, this doesn't make sense. Ideologies necessarily affect one's choices & decisions. I think what is really the case is that they value the enjoyment of food over whatever issues they see with eating meat. Which is fine, your ideology is not my ideology, but your ideology is okay ;) Once I found out about animal cruelty stuff, there wasn't really any question about whether I'd become vegan or not even though I had significant doubts. It wasn't easy becoming vegan, but it would have been impossible not to do it :)
Anyways, see below on honey, milk & wool for some of the reasons why veganism is not too extreme for me!
Honey
"Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic... When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed."
- Vegan Soceity: Bee Farming
More links on Honey:
- Veg Source: Ask Jo: Is Honey Vegan?
- Vegetarian Journal: Busy Bees By Caroline Pyevich
- Vegan Outreach: Insects - more open to vegans/"vegans" having honey than I am :) but makes the excellent point, "Equating meat with honey probably makes the vegan case nonsensical to the average person." **
Milk
"Corporate-owned factories where cows are warehoused in huge sheds [...] have replaced most small family farms. With genetic manipulation and intensive production technologies, it is common for modern dairy cows to produce 100 pounds of milk a day- 10 times more than they would produce in nature. [...] Growth hormones and unnatural milking schedules cause dairy cows' udders to become painful and so heavy that they sometimes drag on the ground, resulting in frequent infections and overuse of antibiotics."
-- Milk Sucks
"Today's mother cows are treated like milk machines-chained by their necks in concrete stalls for months at a time, their udders are swollen so large that they sometimes drag on the ground. Cows give milk for the same reasons humans do-for their babies. To keep milk production high, cows are kept pregnant, and their male calves are taken away at 1 to 2 days old and chained inside cramped dark crates to be killed for veal. The milk-nature meant for them ends up on our supermarket shelves instead."
-- Got veal?
More links on Milk:
- Vegan Society: The Dairy Cow
- Vegan Views: Who Needs Milk? by Harry Mather, Vegan Views 73 (Summer 96)
- Milk Sucks: Got pus? - er, don't read this if you're squeamish :-/
Wool
Boots & clothes
I thought it would be really hard to find vegan thigh high boots but looks like there are loads, even ones I like the look of :O Woo!
- Pennangalan: Vegan - UK :O - their labelling is unclear though, I think I'd need to ring them before ordering, for my own peace of mind
- Peta Mall: Apparel*
* I really don't like PETA when it comes to their activism - I think some of the stuff they do is useful & helpful, but I don't like the way they try to guilt-trip people & stuff. Urg, conflict. Anyways, they do have more life-affirming, *positive* resources too - see the link.
Okay, I don't want to read about this stuff any more :( If you want more info; Google is your friend.
** Perhaps instead of defining a vegan as "someone who does not use animal products", we should define a vegan as "someone who reasonably avoids products that cause suffering to nonhumans."
-- http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/qa.html#insects
Which is where I start to feel like using the word "vegan" to describe myself is a bit silly, because I reasonably avoid products that cause suffering to *humans* too (and before animals). However, describing myself as a vegan is useful in terms of explaining a lot of my food, clothing & lifestyle choices; especially as often people are against suffering *without* being vegan. So, I'll continue to use it, whilst expressing that I'm against human suffering too.
Phew.