002; voice

Nov 10, 2010 09:47

[the audio feed turns on for a few seconds before a boy begins to speak. He's still just as quiet as his first message on that rainy day and speaks as softly, but the shock and the anxiety are gone. Instead, there is a heaviness in his voice---it sounds as if he's dreading his own words.]Excuse me. I'm sorry for bothering you with these questions, ( Read more... )

liquid snake, !seth

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Voice ysobritish November 10 2010, 15:57:40 UTC
...it's not silly at all.

[Liquid's own voice is surprisingly and rarely quiet.]

Sometimes it's hard to tell where dreams end and real life begins. Dreams can be vivid and deep, to the point where you wake up in surprise. But it's rare or impossible for people to share in their dreams. There are people here that woke up remembering the same events, in their own world. That know each other from those "dreams". I don't think they were false memories. They go too deep. Far too complex.

But if they were... don't forget that these "false memories" were supposedly put into us unintentionally. A side-effect of whatever they were doing to us. So it's possible for people's memories to be drastically different.

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Voice spacesalmon November 10 2010, 16:41:20 UTC
...that's what I think, too. Or hope. I...really want the people I remember to exist, at least. They must have. I know too many things that I shouldn't. But even so, what is the point where we wake up? ...is that really definable?

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Voice ysobritish November 10 2010, 16:43:44 UTC
To define that, you would need to define reality itself. That isn't possible. Each person creates their own reality inside their mind, refusing to accept things that don't fit into it. In a sense, they create their own worlds around them through their beliefs and interpretations. Knowing that, it's entirely possible for a dream to be reality as long as you're in it. You awaken from one reality to another.

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Voice spacesalmon November 10 2010, 16:50:39 UTC
One reality to another...[you can literally hear him frown all the way across the feed] So you're saying that that neither are false, but neither are true at the same time, and it depends on which one we're observing at the moment?

.................Won't that mean that our memories are no longer true? Or not applicable, at least. I don't think any of us wants to believe that.

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Voice ysobritish November 10 2010, 16:52:35 UTC
No. Entering into one reality does not remove the other from play. What removes the other reality is your decision to view one of them as a dream.

Why cannot both realities exist at the same time? Crossing a threshold does not make the room you left any less valid than the room you just stepped into.

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Voice spacesalmon November 10 2010, 17:06:48 UTC
But rooms exist in the same house. Reality is...there's only supposed to be just the one reality. Even if the world seen from my eyes is different from the world seen from your eyes, we're still supposed to be seeing the same place, isn't it?

On the other hand, if it's my decision to view dreams and reality as one or the other...wouldn't it mean that all the dreams I've had thus far are, before this, could be...real? And I just crossed back to wherever the first room was when I wake up? [suddenly that thought is more horrifying than what if this isn't a dream]

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Voice ysobritish November 10 2010, 17:20:13 UTC
That isn't necessarily true. Children, for instance, may fabricate an entirely different reality to adults, based on their desires and views of the world. Even without that, at any given time there may be thousands of realities in existence. Every decision you make sets you on a certain path. Yet there is always the possibility of you having taken the other path, even if you didn't. Your reality is that you took that path. The reality in another world might be that you took a different path.

What isn't supposed to happen is for people to be able to cross between them. Yet it's still possible. Absurd, but possible. There's a woman here, named Aqua, who even prior to coming here was able to travel between worlds. I would never have believed that until I came here.

No. Once your mind cemented them as "dream" they ceased to be "real".

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Voice spacesalmon November 10 2010, 17:34:40 UTC
Don't possibilities end the moment you make the decision? If you make one that negates the other, isn't that the same as one reality ceasing to be 'real', if you decide that they're 'dreams'? And....if 'dreams' can cease to be 'real', doesn't that mean they were real 'once'?

But what if, um, Miss Aqua was 'dreaming', too, and all the worlds that she could cross were part of that machine?

[pause]

I suppose we'll never know that, will we, unless she finds a way out of here and tell us about it.

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Voice ysobritish November 10 2010, 17:42:32 UTC
Once. In a sense, you eradicate them when you reject their reality.

What if you're dreaming now? There's no sense in doubting your mind. Whatever is real, whatever is not, it doesn't matter. For all you know your existence might end an hour from now. That might be your reality. All you can do is take what you have and make what you can out of it - without forgetting who you are.

Those memories are part of you. They built you, made you who you are, shaped your personality and mind. It doesn't matter if they're dreams or not because they were your reality until you woke up here. Keep them safe.

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Voice spacesalmon November 10 2010, 17:56:38 UTC
.........I know that. They're the only thing I know about me, and I can't be something else, even if they all seem a little impossible with me as I am now. But..thank you, sir. You're quite a kind person.

.......But. Suppose.

Suppose you dreamed you killed someone, and when you wake up, that person is dead. Did you really kill her, 'once', before you decide that you were dreaming? Nothing you do can change the fact that she's dead, but would your dream still be a dream?

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Voice ysobritish November 10 2010, 18:02:49 UTC
[Kind him what-?]

Ah... I'm not kind. Trust me on that.

...but now that is an interesting conundrum.

Logically, there'd need to be more information. For instance, whether the method of murder matches the victim's death. Not just the method, either, but the situation.

It is possible for your mind to register something as a dream when it was actually real; it's a self-defense mechanism to protect you from suffering more trauma than you can handle. Trauma-based Amnesia is something similar. To you, at that time, reality becomes a dream simply because your mind recognises that you cannot deal with the situation.

However, there are also such things as prophetic dreams - and dreams given by an outside source. I worked with a psychic back home. Believe me, it is possible to envision something in a dream and for it to become reality, absurd though it sounds.

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Voice (1/2) spacesalmon November 10 2010, 18:12:25 UTC
Ahaha. Well, you said something rather kind when you didn't need to, and now you just warned me of how unkind you are. A really bad person wouldn't do that; he'd just let me believe what I want to believe.

So I'll trust you that you're kind enough to warn others about yourself. Thank you.

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Voice (2/2), dividing posts for icons is a bit silly but spacesalmon November 10 2010, 18:17:23 UTC
And um, on that other situation.

I.....suppose the method of murder would match, from what little I know. I don't know about the situation. That does lend a little bit more credence to the, ah, self-defense mechanism theory? Is that what you called it? That murder...would be the last thing I want to remember, if it really happened.

Prophetic dreams. [a small pause] I'll, um, take you on your word that they exist, then. But wouldn't that mean....you really killed that person? If they're dreams that are reality at the same time?

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Voice, nah, I do it sometimes too. ysobritish November 10 2010, 18:36:12 UTC
...

[That's an interesting point of view...]

Tch. You're welcome.

That's close enough. It's a way to defend your mind from reality. Most people that have suffered traumatic events will endure the same thing.

...not necessarily. You could be dreaming from the point of view of someone else, I suppose. But it is possible, yes.

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Voice spacesalmon November 10 2010, 19:02:17 UTC
....so there's a chance that it really happened, and I just somehow thought they were dreams all along. Or that I dreamed it'll happen, and it happened, and I just simply forgot. And even if it's a dream from the point of view of someone here, that means...the possibility that she'll die has already been accounted for, and there's no preventing it in the first place.

........I've never thought of it that way before. It's...certainly something to think about.

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Voice ysobritish November 10 2010, 19:07:13 UTC
Don't worry too much about it. If you forgot it, your mind has a reason for doing that.

The first time someone kills is always the worst. Even seeing death for the first time can be traumatic.

Even soldiers such as I react badly to it. No matter how many times you see it, no matter how much you supress it, death is not something easy to handle. But whether you did it or saw it or dreamt it, there is nothing you can do to change it.

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