GIP

[profshallowness]

This icon replaces my Catwoman watching the Batsignal icon. Why?

Nikki Finke at Deadline Hollywood Daily reports that Warner Bros president of production Jeff Robinov has made a new decree that "We are no longer doing movies with women in the lead". (Thanks to femmenerd for the heads up).

yourlibrarian talks about this and moves on to other stuff about women in the

Comments

Re: As a female cinema-goer

[profshallowness]

I read somewhere that females have the ability to identify with a character whether it is male or not, while males can't identify with a female character, or something along those lines.

I've heard this too, but I don't think it is a law. I mean is the assumption that women are more empathic? Isn't that a generalisation? I think that makes certain demands on people to behave a certain way because of their gender that's a lot reductive. but assuming that this gender-based identification exists means that Hollywood can do a few things. If hey assume that males aren't don't identify with females (never mind how inhuman that makes males sound and how it dehumanises women to objects) then why bother tell stories about female characters, because more people of both genders will follow it. And so female characters get written less, they're less interesting and that somehow becomes further support for this law, because female characters who are written as less important characters get less interesting stuff to do and it is a vicious circle. And quite probably false.

Thinking a little about the list, I've been finding myself coming up with cool and interesting (and often dark) female characters in films, that I wouldn't say I identified with, exactly, but I was really interested in them, though.

Re: As a female cinema-goer

[itayavtalyon]

Hey, I didn't mean to offend or to dehumanize women in anyway. I love women and would read stories about them....

About the list, are we going to share it?

Re: As a female cinema-goer

[profshallowness]

No worries, you didn't offend me, but as you could tell, that view, when taken to its logical extremes does. (So much so that I seem to have been a bit incoherent in my last reply).

About the list, I'm a little confused about your question - do you mean us doing a shared list, my posting it asap or me doing a list of interesting female characters in recent films and splitting them into ones I identified with and ones I didn't? Although 'asap' might not be right now this instant.

Re: As a female cinema-goer

[itayavtalyon]

No, what I meant was whether you'd be publishing that list...

I don't have much of a list myself, but having watched the last season of Veronica Mars, she is definitely on it.

Re: As a female cinema-goer

[profshallowness]

I will post the list, as soon as I can, alhtough it's rough and half done at the mo.

If the list weren't film-specific, of course V would be on it :)

Re: As a female cinema-goer

[itayavtalyon]

And if continue with the female characters from the small screen, Lorelai (how do you spell her name] Gilmore is one, and one would argue that Alias's Sydney, and Dark Angel's Max are too, or it just be the list of women who can kick your ass.

Yes, it's Lorelai

[profshallowness]

You inspired me to go back and look at our wording in this thread, you said 'female role models' and I said 'women to identify with', which aren't quite the same thing. I'd put Lorelai and Sydney in both categories in their different ways. Max only up to a point. At her best, maybe. However, I don't intend the list, whatever I call it, to be about TV characters, I think that's a pretty well-trodden path.

Re: Yes, it's Lorelai

[itayavtalyon]

I include TV characters because they are more known (to me at least) and they tend to be more developed than an average movie character.

I am interested in your list nonetheless.

I wonder, is there a cut-and-dry way to write a female role model?

I am working on the list now, honest!

[profshallowness]

I include TV characters because they are more known (to me at least) and they tend to be more developed than an average movie character.

Okay, but the genesis of this discussion was Hollywood and female lead characters/the treatment of actresses. I agree that TV characters, especially in anything longer than a mini series are going to be better developed, simply because there's more time to do so. And that's probably why there are more TV fandoms than film fandoms, but that too is why the list of kick-ass women and girls (both figurative and literal) from TV's been covered.

is there a cut-and-dry way to write a female role model? Probably not - and I'd caution that setting out to do so might lead to accusations of Mary Sueism. Well, there's the basics, actually have a female character be the protagonist, make her three dimensional, make her an active character in a way that's believable for who she is, her time and background (she doesn't automatically have to be Action Girl). That's a start, because out of these characters will come the role models and the heroines.

Re: I am working on the list now, honest!

[itayavtalyon]

Are there any values though that you'd consider to be important for the character to represent for her to be a role model? I'd assume that she needs to be independent or not dependent on men, for one.