Idiots shouldn't be vegans nor should they be parents

[princessgalena]

As many of us hear in the news about cruelty to children and such, and most of us think idiots shouldn't procreate, they always do. Also, idiots shouldn't be vegans or vegetarians. I have nothing really against people who either don't eat meat or don't eat animal products, but I love my meat and my cheese, if I wasn't allergic to milk so much I

Comments

Re: Agreed

[logicbreakheart]

Only stupid vegans eat those kinds of foods. A vegan diet can be healthier than one containing meat as long as it doesn't contain any of that rubbish. There are pros and cons to all diets. You could say "look at omnivorous people, how do they expect to get proper nutrition when all they eat is hamburgers!" obviously anyone of any diet can eat chemical-ridden awful food. Alot of omnivorous people don't actually get enough protein because the type of proteins they eat usually come from meat (not exactly the source of all good health!) and meat proteins are the hardest for the human body to break down. Vegetable proteins are far easier to break down, a good source is a popular (proper not plastic vegan food) Quinoa also sprouts, beans, grains and nuts and seeds.

natural foods/drinks that are rich in B-vitamins (including B12) and do not have any bad particularly bad properties(alot of the foods omnivores commonly get B-vits from do): Nettle Tea, brown rice, sunflower seeds, avocados, buckwheat, legumes, red clover tea, carrots, dark green leafy veggies, almonds, parsley, wheatgerm, sea vegetables, millet, oats, aduki beans, fava beans, soy beans, lentils... quite a few, and as far as I'm aware if that's not enough there are healthy supplements.

I think a lot of us in Western society find it hard to gt our heads around though as we're all raised on 'meat and two veg' healthy kinda diets it' hard to conceive how someone who doesn't eat meat eggs and milk (milk is not particularly healthy by the way, the downfalls outway the benfits). It's just inconvenient to be vegan as far as I'm concerned and I like certain food that are not vegan (I'm omnivorous). But I know enough about nutrition to realise now that vegans are not unhealthy if they do it right, in fact, just the opposite. Also the popular theory is that we were originally vegan and evolved into omnivores for survival. We don't need t hunt to survive anymore just go to the supermarket!

And these people in this news story are complete a**holes. Aside from being vegan, they are just idiots. Plain and simple.

The Granola Crisis (Part 1)

[prettybird911]

I don't know what your credintials are... and I don't know who you are either to be honest other than some random person on the internet who knows Jenn...

But I'm a bioarchaeologist. Meaning I have duel degrees in both biology and archaeology. I have enough knowledge on this to write several books.

I strongly dislike psuedo-science. It pointless to fight your opinion with established fact. You're entitled to your own opinion, but please take the time to learn the difference between an opinion and a fact and not state the former as the latter. For example, because you LIKED the minority vegan-made-up theory that "we were all originally vegan and evolved into omnivores for survival" does not make it "the popular theory." This theory is largely ignored due to it's FICTIONAL nature and the lack of FACTS supporting it (there are plenty which oppose it though... for example the fact that all of the earliest human ancenstors and their successors were found in camps with gnawed on animal bones between their teeth and around their campsites - skeletal analysis confirms the presence of animal products in their systems - you can read the osteology reports yourself if you like). It's even less acadmically accepted than the opposite (and sexist) "man the hunter" thoery which has since been disproven as well.

Basically, human ancestors as far back as Australopithecus africanus were scavengers who hid in the shrubs until wolves were done with their meal then stole the remains of carcasses. To suppliment their diet they gathered plants and insects. Insects aren't vegan either, and the United States is one of the only countries in the world where they are not eaten. Lotsa protein, very little fat.

Vegans are part of what public health professionals call the "granola crisis." There are an increasing number of people who believe that what is "natural" is "better." These same people often tend to be animal rights activists and thus it became popular to protest human nature in favor of a kinder, gentler reality. Unfortunately, nature ISN'T the kind and gentle soul that the granolas want you to believe. If you can't handle that, it's going to kill you off just like it's killing off the granolas. It's ironic really. They can argue all they want, with their peace rallies and save the rainforest campaigns, but saying so doesn't make it so in the real world. Reality marches on and stops for no one.

When doctors and nutritionists freaked out as patients came in malnourished time and time again they started developing technology to keep these people alive. Since this is a relatively new phenomenon, the technology hasn't been perfected. The B-vitamins and complex omega-3 fatty acids are still defunct from vegan diet. B12 does not absorb into the body from non-animal sources and has not been able to be created in the lab with any success. Scientists are having some luck recently with developing a sublingual method of administration, but so far it isn't enough to repair and sustain brain function. Likewise, if you're going to argue with me that flaxseed contains omega-3-fatty acid, or avacado... good for you, but they contain a simple strand called an ALA which is essental for cellular membrane integrity BUT you need the complex form DHA found only in deep sea fish to sustain brain function and form the precurser to several essental hormones.

Re: The Granola Crisis (Part 1)

[logicbreakheart]

I didn't actually say that I liked the omnivores-for-survival theory, I don't particularly, I was just aware that it was a popular theory.

We're not particularly keen on insects in Western Europe either so there's a few more countries to add to America.

I wasn't arguing a case for vegans indiscriminately (and I'm not even going to touch upon your slightly generalised stereotype there lol) I was just saying that the vegan diet, if followed correctly can be very healthy the omnivorous diet can aswell but most of us don't use our diets to their full potential. I was responding to your rather angry comment that incorrectly implied that vegans can only get proper nutrition from questionable lab-created chemicals and therefore cannot be healthy unless they follow an omnivorous diet. I know plenty of omnivores who probably don't get all their B-12s, and probably a few other vits aswell! The problem is that a lot of omnivores are largely unaware of this.

I don't claim to know everything about nutrition but I know a fair bit as I am in my first year of BSc Honours in Human Nutrition (at the risk of throwing creds around) and the information I typed is largely what I have learned. I attend a reputable University and as far as I know the information I gave is correct. I did not intend to anger you and, as I expressed, you seem to have decided that I am arguing a case for 'being vegan' when I was just correcting what I believed to be, slightly maligned ideas.

The Granola Crisis (Part 2)

[prettybird911]

Also, you mention in the next responce that it's easier to be a "slim healthy vegan" because "meat proteins are harder to digest than other proteins"? WTF? YOU WANT MORE COMPLEX PROTEINS IF YOU WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT! You want more complex EVERYTHING if you want to lose weight! Besides, even vegans take protein suppliments. At least the smart ones do. Simple proteins, like simple carbs, require less energy reserves (read: fat) to break down and are much more easily converted into fat for storage later.

Lack of complex proteins will however cause the body to canibalize its own muscle tissue, which is why I have never in my life seen a muscular vegan. They tend to be scrawny, sickly, and weak.

In short, a long term vegan diet very often leads to insanity and brain death. At the least, all vegans WILL suffer some brain damage as a result of their choices. Brain damage is very difficult to reverse.

Vegans, in protest to what their doctors were telling them as a warning about their lifestyle, started making up their own research and claiming that in fact, veganism was HEALTHY and that everyone should do it, drawing back to old granola ideas of "natural = healthy." When omnivores pointed out that veganism wasn't in fact natural at all, they moved into making up fact in the rhelm of archaeology to help solidify their choices. Deductive reasoning will never work in a true scientific setting - you can't start with a conclusion and then later search for, bend, and twist facts to support it. Facts are facts, and you can only accept them for what they are and draw conclusions AFTER obtaining them. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant. Unfortunately some granolas have gotten so good at their platform that they've started recruiting ignorent non-granolas to their cause of a kinder, gentler (more delusional) world.

I understand the "save the animals" bit (I'm an animal rights activist myself - parrots in particular are my chosen species). If that was all there was to being a vegan, I'd give up meat, dairy, and eggs in a heartbeat. Furthermore I know perfectly well that farms are terrible places - I was a veterinary technition for three years in a rural area and went on lord knows how many farm calls. But unfortunately, it isn't that simple. You can save the animals, or you can save yourself. You are what you are, and in the end nature isn't going to be forgiving or make allowances for your so-called "ethics."

Re: The Granola Crisis (Part 2)

[logicbreakheart]

I also didn't say that it is easier to be a slim healthy vegan BECAUSE meat proteains are harder to digest than other proteins. It easier to be slim as a vegan because, if you follow the diet healthily, you should be eating less bad fats. I am also not aware that a lack of more complex proteins causing the body to 'canibalize' it's own muscle tissue, but I am open to the fact that this will be something I am yet to learn, but it is also possible to eat only complex proteins and not actually be utilising it fully, as I was pointing out. So either way there are problems. And yet again can I point out that I myself am omnivorous.

I agree with the last paragraph.