Why I do not like the term "privilege"

Mar 08, 2011 13:31

[This post is basically a holding page for a discussion that started on Twitter but quickly spiralled beyond 140 characters per point.]

I think that the term "privilege", as used by feminists and other equality-campaigners, is unhelpful. I think the concept to which it refers (which I attempted to explain here) is extremely helpful and important; ( Read more... )

subjects i know nothing about, smash the kyriarchy, maths, words, ideas

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What is blogging for? anonymous March 8 2011, 13:59:57 UTC
Interesting post. I think you have to ask what these blogs are for, and what commenters are looking for when they comment.

For example, most feminist blogs aren't set up to educate non-feminists. They're set up as a space where feminists can talk to each other and discuss things from a feminist perspective, because those spaces are lacking in the mainstream media. It's fine if a non-feminist commentator comes along and wants to learn. But most of the time, non-feminist commentators on feminist blogs aren't there to learn; they're there to spoil the conversation, to turn the attention on themselves and to waste feminist energy. These people are never going to learn anything even if they're patiently spoonfed day after day.

As you point out, we don't have a good substitute for the word "privilege". If bloggers avoid using it, they'll have to go round the houses to say things that they could say a lot more easily if there was just a simple word for it - see muted group theory. And for what? So that bad-faith trolls will have one fewer "mistake" to make in their armoury of a thousand fake mistakes?

Kate

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Re: What is blogging for? pozorvlak March 8 2011, 14:32:01 UTC
I guess I was assuming that the unreachable trolls were outnumbered by clueless but educable people who don't realise they're in the wrong place, but perhaps this is my unexamined privilege talking.

If bloggers avoid using it, they'll have to go round the houses to say things that they could say a lot more easily if there was just a simple word for it

I absolutely agree that this is a concept that needs a concise term. I think it's possible to find a better term than "privilege", but I don't know how :-(

muted group theory

That's a new one on me (and "group theory" tends to spark the wrong associations in my head :-) ). Reading now - thanks!

And for what?

Easier outreach, more obvious segmentation. The feminist blogs which are doing outreach will have one less misconception to overcome; those which aren't will look less like they are.

If, as you say, the majority of non-feminists commenting in feminist spaces are trolls, then this won't make much difference. But if not, it would save feminist time and energy and aid the spread of some very important ideas.

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Re: What is blogging for? maradydd March 8 2011, 14:38:57 UTC
It took me a minute to figure out that muted group theory probably wasn't a branch of abstract algebra.

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Re: What is blogging for? pozorvlak March 8 2011, 14:48:04 UTC
Me too :-)

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Re: What is blogging for? michiexile March 8 2011, 15:25:36 UTC
Me three.

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Re: What is blogging for? alexey_rom March 8 2011, 21:59:39 UTC
5th.

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Re: What is blogging for? atreic March 8 2011, 15:21:47 UTC
Me three :-)

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Re: What is blogging for? pozorvlak March 8 2011, 15:31:30 UTC
Wikipedia's entry on muted group theory was very interesting - thank you! It also explains the prevalence of feminist blogs that aren't doing outreach. In the tech world, any blog post that isn't up-to-the-minute news is probably doing outreach of some kind - but some are doing outreach to newbies, and others are doing outreach to more experienced people. "Here's this cool tool I've started using, and why you should too", or "here's how I solved this problem I was having". So it's interesting that the feminist blogosphere is so different.

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Re: What is blogging for? anonymous March 11 2011, 10:49:41 UTC
I genuinely believe that most feminist blogs are not there for outreach - or at least, if they are doing outreach, it's not aimed at people who fundamentally don't get what feminism is "for". This is why I don't think feminist bloggers should have to waste their time explaining the difference between privilege the countable noun and privilege the uncountable noun, or coming up with completely new terms for it.

I think feminist outreach is needed, but not on the web where it's hard to find things you didn't know you needed to look for. I think it's more valuable in real life, challenging people's ignorant views when you hear them.

I think you do get people commenting on feminist blogs who are genuinely clueless, but cluelessness about the meaning of "privilege" is just the tip of the iceberg. All too often there's a massive arrogance reinforcing the cluelessness, leading to faux-naive questions which are really about pointing out how pointless feminism is rather than about learning anything. It's all coming from the basis that the commenter knows better and what they've worked out from first principles in ten seconds must be better than what you're saying with a lifetime of experience and theory behind you. I've seen carefully-argued thousand-word essays dismissed with the word "Dumb" more times than I like to think about.

And of course all this is coming from a privileged perspective, if the commenters could only see it (but they won't). That kind of faith in your own ill-informed opinion doesn't usually grow in a vacuum; it comes from being educated to expect that people should listen to you.

This is why I so rarely write about anything to do with feminism on my blog. I don't have the energy to deal with the trolls and the people who Just Don't Get It.

Kate

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Re: What is blogging for? pozorvlak March 11 2011, 13:17:23 UTC
This deserves a longer response than I can give it right now.

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