3505: The Worlds Worst... -- Charlotte Cartwrite and company

[pottersues]

Don't forget about the Thirteenth Annual Pottersue Fanfic Contestt. You've got until January 31 to get your entries in.
- The link of the day is OC vs. Mary Sue. I bring this one in simply because it amuses me. The character on the left can still be a Sue, and on the left we have exaggerations along with traits which aren't necessarily Sue traits.

Comments

[yemi_hikari]

Apologies, but your logic does not work at all. I'm not going to say this to hurt your feelings, but they need to be addressed as logic fallacy is the biggest issue in your story.

First, the fact Alfie is the Muggleborn Theif makes things worse, as it was bad enough when we thought he was a Pureblood/Halfblood child breaking into Hogwarts, but now he's a Muggleborn child, someone who would have far less information then a person of Wizarding lineage. This also brings into question how he knows enough to tell Charlotte everything he does, let alone how he got to the Americas

Second, the fact Charlotte was born in England is mute due to the fact that's not how you get added to the list of students who are to attend Hogwarts. The fact her sister went to Hogwarts is also a mute point due to the fact Charlotte was adopted, and all ties to her biological family cut off through the process.

Third, the keys at Gringotts are not magical. Any adopted child left with a key like she was would have wondered what that key unlocked, so she wouldn't be surprised at finding that said key unlocked something either, but instead excited. There is though another issue. Why was she using the key for teething, and why would she even know she used it for teething, when your story makes it clear her parents didn't adopt her until she was four.

Forth, the “decides to take off without the permission of her adoptive parents, something the Hogwarts staff would never put up with”. The fact this takes place a month before school starts actually makes things worse, because she's living on her own for a month, something an eleven year old child would not be able to do, and if she were to come across her sister, well, the adult thing to do would be to return the runaway back to her adoptive parents, because that is what she is. In a months time Hogwarts would have also gotten word that she'd gone missing. Maybe her adoptive parents, being Muggles wouldn't know how to contact the Ministry of Magic, but they still would have gotten involved.

Fifth, that's why Charlotte is a Parasite Sue. Her story should not parallel Harry's, but be it's own unique story. Running her story parallel like this makes her the type of character who would, no should have an effect on the canon plot. The chances of her going to Diagon Alley the exact same day as Draco and Harry are also slim, so the argument about keeping in mind where everyone was becomes mute.

Sixth, she's an eleven to twelve year old child, so her having foes is rather illogical, but so is the idea she would suddenly stop being friends with the guy who managed to get her there without her parents knowing. As for being friends with Draco, that brings her personal judgement into question.

Seven, I don't know either.

Eight, if Charlotte's story was not important enough for Harry and his friends to tell, then why is your character's story important enough to tell? You say that she's “left out because she ended up doing a lot of not-so-great things during the war”, but that's a mute point for a few reasons. One, there are plenty of signs that she should be a character effecting the plot, or at least her sister and Alfie would be, with her sister being the most powerful witch, and Alfie being able to break into Hogwarts like she is. She's what brings them into the story. Two, there are plenty of minor characters who didn't do great things that still get mentioned in the books.

Nine, she was four years old. At that age she would be excited about being a part of the family, and would have taken her parents last name. On top of this, even if a child insists, the parents still have veto power, and likely would change her name so that people at school wouldn't question why their child had a different name.

... cont...

[yemi_hikari]

Ten, running into her sister is way to convenient, but then so was her getting whisked away by Alfie. Someone would be trying to get in contact with her adoptive parents, as she is a minor.

Eleven, it's great you're writing this just for fun, and don't mind the criticism. This said, it can also be fun trying to write a story without all these logical fallacies. It's like solving a puzzle.

Twelve, fair critique. Did you identify who was speaking then? You should possibly double check on that.

Thirteen, as someone who writes both original fiction and fanfiction, I actually suggest putting in an effort into your fanfic writing and looking at using it as practice for the original fiction series you do want to write. Unlike original fiction the characters and world are created for you, and being consistent in fanfic works helps you to be consistent in your original fiction, which believe it or not is important.

Good luck. :)

[piper_audrey]

(1/2) Again, I think you misunderstand what I'm saying here.

First, I state in the story that Alfie never actually broke into Hogwarts at all. I never once said he did. He knew were Charlotte was because he ended up using the internet and asking around to find out where Charlotte was and by using a lot of the muggle skills wizards wouldn't think of using he was able to find Charlotte, but he needed a reason to approach her, and upon finding her owl with her Hogwarts letter by chance on the beach the same day Charlotte did, he used magic to paralyze it and took the letter from it. I explain this all in chapter four. The reason he's called the "Muggleborn Thief" is because he's a pickpocket and a con artist living on Diagon Alley. He know enough to explain things to her because he's been living on those streets for a long time, and has picked up on a lot, but even that doesn't really come into play because most of things Charlotte has 'explained to her' comes from a newspaper article Alfie shows her. As for how he got to the Americas was through flow system.

As for why she goes to Hogwarts, It's a long story and it kinda has to do with her sister and her family and all that and it's complicated. There's a reason for it, but it's kinda like a big reveal later in the story and it's going to sound stupid unless you actually like the the story so I'm just not gonna get into it. But honestly We already know that where you live doesn't necessarily effect what school you go to in the wizarding world because in the fourth book Draco talks about how he could have gone to Durmstrang Institute but ultimately ended up going to Hogwarts, so we know that wizarding students in England aren't limited to going to just Hogwarts, so why wouldn't it work that way in other places.
Third, there is a dumb old key around your neck for as long as you can remember and it doesn't go to anything as far as you know, and suddenly one day you find out that that key is actually the key to a volt in a wizard bank with your wizard fortune in it and your telling me you wouldn't be shocked?? Like not that it's a big deal because it was a two second line in the third chapters so I'm not really sure why it's that big a deal...

Forth, "she's living on her own for a month something an eleven year old child would not be able to do, and if she were to come across her sister" What? What? Did...Did you read the story or...? No, what happens is it's a month before school starts Alfie drops in in the middle of the night she goes with him to Diagon alley /for the day/ and that night she meets her sister, her sister finds out she ran away and is basically like "wtf dude" allows her to stay the night and brings her back home in the morning and explains what happened to her confused and worried parents. She then spends the rest of the summer with her parents until school starts, when Bethany picks her up in the morning and takes her to the platform... Where did you get the missing for a month thing from??? She was like gone for a day.

[piper_audrey]

(2/2) Fifth, Idk what a parasite sue is. Hell I barely know what a sue is. I mean, I know what it is, but I've heard it used in different context, but anywho. Idk what's know with having Charlotte's story told, not necessarily parallel to Harry's but in the same time frame. Like, she has her own unique story, it just happens to be happening on the same day that Harry's in Diagon alley. She only sees glimpses of him at and she runs into Draco while he's leaving the clothing shop. Charlotte's story has absolutely nothing to do with Harry's during this part of the story. She doesn't even have any contact with Harry until they meet on the train. I don't think there is anything wrong with it happening in the same time frame, and I don't see how that makes her a "parasite". But as for the chances of her going to Diagon Alley the exact same day as Draco and Harry, um yeah, sure, they're slim, but it's fiction...? And the chances of an eleven year old boy with a lightning scar being a wizard and the choosen one of a prophecy are pretty slim too, but that happened... Well, in the HP universe anyway. Hell, the chances Draco was there on the same day as Harry are slim too, but it happened. But guess what, it's a story. I think that's the beauty of story telling, isn't it? That anything can happen. I'm not talk like, "It suddenly started raining cows!" but like this isn't that big a deal, I mean, who's to say who was and wasn't at Diagon Alley that day? It's not like Draco and Harry were the only people at Diagon Alley. Anyone could have been there, it just so happened to be Alfie and Charlotte, in this particular AU.

Sixth, she's ten years old, and dude, what do you call Harry and Draco??? I mean I'm not talking like actual, "I'm going to kill you" foe here. I'm talking like Alfie hurt her feelings and made her cry. I basically called it that because it was a good chapter name. The chapter's called "One New Friend and One New Foe" because she ends up making from with Draco only to find out that Alfie was only trying to make friends with her because she was rich. And suddenly a guy sneaking you out of your parents house means that they should be inseparable?? They weren't really friends to start out with. When they met he broke into her vacation cabin so she punched him in the face. She only goes to Diagon Alley with him to meet her sister, and they end up becoming friends along the way. And I'm sorry if you're ten, you've never had a friend in your life and you find out that this boy whom you really like has just been pretending to be your friend so he can get your money and then he was going to ditch you, you'd be upset too. And um, yeah Charlotte's /ten/ and she has terrible personal judgement. She's ten, and the reason she likes Draco actually wants friends because she's famous, but to Charlotte she he's showing her off, not because she's his famous friend but because she thinks he's proud to call her his friend. It's a fucked up friendship. It's meant to be that way.

[piper_audrey]

Seven, I never said Charlotte's story wasn't important enough for Harry and his friends to tell. It's not a question of interest in her story. But basically what I have been saying is that in this AU Charlotte is saying all the things in the Harry Potter books happened, and she was a part of them, and she effected them in a huge way, mostly by being part of a prophecy that said she was the key player that would lead Voldemort to victory, but ultimately she ended up helping Harry. However people are still afraid of her being evil because of the prophecy so if they knew she existed they'd want to kill her. So after the war, when Harry and his friends sat down to write their story they all agreed it would be safer for Charlotte if they cut her out of the story in order to protect her, and what they were left with was a the Harry Potter books we all know, but now she's coming out with the story of what really happened.

Nine, as for her being four and just being excited to a part of the family, taking her parents last name. Um, ever child is different and Charlotte just happened to want to keep the last remaining thing she had left from her parents. It's my OC, and I don't mean to sound rude here, but I don't exactly think you have the right to tell me what decisions my character would and wouldn't make. It's my original character, not yours. It's not exactly impossible for a child to want to keep their last name even if they are four and even if they are excited to be adopted. And on top of this, sure even if a child insists, the parents still have veto power. They could, but they didn't because they wanted Charlotte to be happy. It's not a question of Charlotte insisting on it and making it happen herself, she simply asked for it to be done and her parents did it to make her happy because they knew it was what she wanted, and that was more important to them than people at school questioning why their child had a different name, a question which takes two seconds to answer. So yeah they could veto it, but they didn't, because they're my OCs and that's the type of people I decided they are.

[piper_audrey]

Ten, She never ran into her sister. This again makes it clear to me that you didn't actually read the story. Charlotte runs into Draco (Literally) and makes friends with him, and Draco's family knows Bethany because her potions shop happens to be of a higher status and such and run by a pureblood woman so they shop there and sometimes Bethany teacher classes to kids who are going to Hogwarts soon like teaching them to organize and navigate and stuff, and Draco brings Charlotte along to one of these meetings. It's not convenient Charlotte was looking for her sister, that's the whole reason she went with Alfie in the first place, not because they were friends. And in the same way Charlotte was looking for Bethany, Alfie was looking for Charlotte because Bethany promised a huge reward to anyone who knew where her sister was after an anonymous source sent her Charlotte's school picture. Then Alfie, in an attempt to get said money found Charlotte and promised to bring her to her sister.

Eleven, That comment was just a little bit rude and unnecessary and honestly that's why people find it hard to take your feedback, because you're still trying to make them feel bad about their writing even after they've agreed that it's a problem and say that they'll work on it. It's a little distasteful

Twelve: “Of course!” Draco looked at me, as if it should be obvious, “You’re the little sister of one of the most brilliant witches in the wizarding world, and your picture’s pretty much everywhere. There probably isn’t a wizard alive who hasn’t heard about you.”

Thirteen, Thank you for the advice but honestly fan fiction is just something that makes me happy. It's not exactly something I see as seriously as a profession because there is no way of making money of it or becoming successful off it. It's simply just something silly I do in my free time, and I know It can be good practice but honestly the components are really different and it's hard to compare the two writings because while in Fanfiction the world and rules are created for you but in original fiction you create your own. It's very different for me so I kinda just have them each in their separate fields.

[yemi_hikari]

We're not misunderstanding what you're saying, but instead saying that your logic doesn't work.

1. The year Harry Potter started school at Hogwarts was the year the world wide net came into existence. The internet was used primarily for business purposes back then, and the vast majority of users were adults, not children, if any. The use of the internet by those under the age of eighteen was rare even in 2000, and we didn't really see the widespread use of the net by kids your age until about five years ago when everyone started having a device to get on the net.

2. Even if the net was available, the information would not be, even in this day and age. Adoption records are closely guarded secrets, and require someone closely involved to get access to.

3. This boy should not be able to apparate all the way to America, let alone secure a portkey to get himself here. Being able to use a spell to paralyze an owl would beyond his capabilities as well, but then there is also the fact her letter would be hand delivered, as Muggleborn students have their letters hand delivered, and she would have been considered a Muggleborn due to the fact she's adopted.

4. Even if he could live on Diagon Alley, which is impossible by the way, he still wouldn't know the information he parted to Charlotte, nor would said information be in a newspaper article, let alone would he be able to miraculously make the connections.

5. The fact you said “it's going to sound stupid unless you actually like the story so I'm just not gonna get into it,” means you actually don't have a logical reason. Fact is, the way you did it is either going to be logical, or it is not, and whether a person likes the story or not has nothing to do with that.

6. If students outside of England went to Hogwarts, then there would have been some mention of it in the books, as the other students would have made a big deal out of it.

7. Shock is not the word I would use for the way I would feel about finding out the key fits a special vault at a wizarding bank, particularly not at the age of eleven to twelve. We're talking about a child who doesn't know her biological parents here, and who knows she's adopted, thus would suspect something before she got there.

8. First, the key is a big deal because you have her remembering teething on it, when she shouldn't remember such a thing. Second, the keys also a big deal because this is another miracoulous event within your story that just happens to fall into yur characters lap.

9. I read the story. If you put her returning to her parents in there, you glossed over it. Instead the focus was how great her adventure from running away was, and how there were no consequences for her bad behavior. On top of this, if you glossed over this, you skipped the entire month, so it's missing in another respect.

10. Parasite Sue is a term we use for a character that tags along with the plot and typically does one of the following things. They end up being a part of important events, and yet have no real effect on the story, or they have an effect on the story, and steal spotlight from the canon characters.

11. A Mary Sue is an unbelievable character. This can be because of characterization issues, or because of plot holes and logical fallacies. Your story falls into the plot holes and logical fallacies department.

12. First, she like Harry manages to bump into Draco at the clothing shop, albeit outside. She then runs into Hagrid on that trip, and thus would run into Harry as well. She's then there when Draco and Harry meet on the train, despite the fact Crabbe, Goyal and Draco were the only ones there. She's tagging along with the canon events, but having no effect what so ever. The fact you add stuff inbetween said events doesn't change the fact she's participating in said events, and not having any effect.

... cont...

[yemi_hikari]

13. The fact something is fiction doesn't mean you can do anything you want. There is a concept in fiction called “willing suspense of disbelief”, and in turn this relates to how believable something is. This said, simply showing up on the same day as them isn't normally this big of a deal, but unfortunately your story already has one to many moments which aren't very believable, which helps to make her showing up there also not very believable.

14. The fact Harry becoming the chosen one is a mute point. This actually isn't about how slim of a chance the incident is, but how believable the writer made the slim chances be. Rowling made Harry being the chosen one believable, but your OC showing up like she did isn't very believable at all. Same with Draco showing up on the same day. Fiction as I already pointed out isn't about doing anything you want. You've got to make it believable. Since you're aiming to be a fantasy writer, this is something you're going to need to work on.

15. Again, making your story believable is a big deal. There are actually writers out there who are able to pull off “it suddenly started raining cows” in a believable manner.

16. If she's ten, then she shouldn't be going to Hogwarts. While it is true that one might get their letters before they turn eleven, the cut off day is Harry Potter's birthday, and this is taking place after that, so she should be eleven, or else in Ginny's year.

17. It's not a good chapter name. I find it quite amusing that you have her making friends with Draco, whose also rich, but made Alfie out to be trying to make friends with her just because she's rich. You're basically having her run from one manipulative person to another, but you're also forcing this characterization on Alfie, making him even more of a convenient plot point which really shouldn't exist in the first place. You also made your character trust him enough to go with him, which means she's interested in him. And wasn't it because of Draco's word that she thought Alfie was manipulating her, not because there was any proof?

18. The fact she has no friends is not believable either. The basis is on the fact she's “different”, and has magical powers, but that's not why Harry or Hermione didn't have friends before they came to school. Harry's cousin kept him from having friends, and Hermione didn't have any friends due to her bookworm tendancies, though truth be told that is also an assumption that she didn't have friends. While it's true that you tried making it clear how “different” she was, you told the raders instead of showing it.

19. Again, if she's ten then she shouldn't be going to Hogwarts.

20. If Harry Potter was able to discern that making friends with Draco wasn't a good idea, then she should as well. They're the same age.

[yemi_hikari]

I've not been on for over a year, and I found a message I'd flagged from the author which looking back makes me feel a tad concerned as the jest of their argument was that on point number five they did have a valid point, but that they couldn't be bothered because the computer ate their original response and they weren't wanting to get into a debate over the matter. They also said I was being rude.

The point I made though, it stands. Either you have a logical explanation, or you don't. Liking or disliking the story won't change whether something is logical or not. Looking back, this is one of those Mary Sues you can't help but like, which makes her argument even more problematic as she specifically argued we wouldn't understand if we didn't like, but she had no clue whether we liked.

[pottersues]

Apologies, but no.

People can't use the net to find information on minors like that, but there is also the problem of what we know as the internet not existing when Harry Potter went back to school.

The fact other schools like Durmstrang allows students from England does not mean that Hogwarts allows students from outside of England. The fact Hogwarts doesn't allow students from outside of the British isles isn't in the book, but two interviews from 1999 and 2000 where Rowling herself said the school only accepted students from this area.

I also read the story. I don't think you can blame the reader on this one, as you only covered Charlotte being taken back to her parents in a paragraph comprised of two sentences, and the rest of the chapter is her getting away with taking off like she did. There was no punishment for her actions, and so the readers going to focus on the fact she got off scott free rather then noticing those two sentences.

There are other issues with your arguments. I'm touching on these because the internet argument popped out at me while I was looking through my PMs, but the other two jumped out for other reasons. I don't mind you putting forth arguments here, but if they're not well thought out, you are going to be called on them.

[yemi_hikari]

So that part was there. Two sentences really isn't enough to cover said information, and it is important to the story.

[piper_audrey]

(2/3) As for reading the story, Pottersues you wrote an entire review on it, and a pretty good one too, so, of course I wasn't questioning whether or not you read the story. I assure you I wasn't trying to insult you in anyway, and my apologizes if I did. But I am, however, questioning weather this yemi hikari read it, because it sort of sounds as if they didn't, from my perspective anyway. However, I'm not sure what you're talking about with Charlotte returning home being a two sentence paragraph and the rest of the chapter talking about her running off. Charlotte getting back to her parents and spending the summer with them was a huge chunk of Chapter Six: "After that, Bethany sent an owl to my parents explaining that I was safe and everything that was going on. She reassured them that everything would be explained to them in greater detail later. I imagined what a shock this was for my parents. I would have loved to have seen the look on their faces after getting an owl telling them their daughter was a witch, but I wouldn't have traded my time in London for anything ... Draco was one of the last to leave. He gave me a grin and made me promise that we'd write to each other for the remainder of the summer. I grinned back and promised I would which, which unlike [the promise to exchange letters] with Pansy, was a promise I intended to keep ... That night, after everyone had gone home, I got to sleep over at Bethany's shop but I was promptly brought home the next morning to explain myself to my parents, which had taken awhile, but my mom and dad just seemed happy to have me back. And with that, I was left to wait out the rest of the month of August in America." And that's the shortened version. The rest of the section was talking about what Charlotte did over the summer at home with her parents. So unless the person reading the story skipped all 15 paragraphs, they would know that Charlotte wasn't missing or on her own for a month.

As for her getting away with her running away, I never really go into detail about her summer other than her spending time with her sister and writing to Draco, so the rest of the summer is open to interpretation. She could have been punished because of her running away, but I never got into all that. And I understand why it might seem like Charlotte got away with it because she talks about how great the summer was, but that's only because she got to spend the summer seeing her sister, and it's not as if her parents were going to punish her by not allowing her see her sister. I guess it might also seem that way because she still got to exchange letters with Draco but I doubt her muggle parents even realized she was exchanging letters by owl with him. And I doubt they would have been punished her by forbidding her to go to Hogwarts, since they just found out their daughter's a witch and this is the only school that they know of where she can learn to control her powers. So yeah, I guess you could come to the conclusion that she wasn't punished, but you could also come to the conclusion that she was, since I didn't really talk about it either way.

[pottersues]

Actually, her parents would forbid her from visiting her sister over the summer due to the fact running away showed a major lack of responsibility, nor would they be able to trust her for a long while. Her sister might get to visit them for family dinners and such, but otherwise she would be stuck not seeing her sister. On top of this her parents would know if she was getting letters via owl, as the owl simply showing up would be strange, and her sister would explain things to her.

One of the mistakes I and the minions see young writers making is thinking that one event isn't significant to cover when it really is, but we've also seen events covered which are not significant at all. One of the things which also shows up with Mary Sue characters is the fact they get away with things, and not for a logical reason.

[piper_audrey]

(3/3)But regardless, in response to you argument that I can't "blame the reader on this one, as you only covered Charlotte being taken back to her parents in a paragraph comprised of two sentences" By that logic if there's a story that says: "'I love that you get cold when it's 71 degrees out. I love that it takes you an hour and a half to order a sandwich. I love when you're looking at me when I'm nuts. And I love that you are the last person I want to talk to before I go to sleep at night.' The man said, sarcastically." It's the writers fault if the reader in confused because they skipped the word 'Sarcastically'. As a reader, you can skip over things as much as you want, as long as you're enjoying the story, but that's considering that you're simply reading for enjoyment. However, if your reading in the attempt to prove a point and make an argument you have to read everything, otherwise your argument will be completely off. It's one of the first things we learned in my English II class. I mean, If you were taking a test and skipped over that 'sarcastically' Then proceeded to write an entire essay proving that the man in the story was in love, the person grading your test isn't going to go: "Well, the author did only say the word sarcastically once, let's give them a 100%" They're just going give you a 0. But that's just a sort of metaphor, I understand that this isn't a test, it's just a small debate of sorts, it's clearly not that serious.

But you know, It's kind of clear that you and I aren't really going to agree on this anyway, and with nothing riding on me winning this little debate, I suppose it doesn't really matter at all. After all It's not like I risk losing followers on my fan fiction because of this, in fact the only thing I really have riding on this is my own pride, but I'd be a complete fool if I let that control my actions, and I imagine that's the kind of fool you find yourself writing about. So, this is where I try to prove that I'm at least a little smarter than I think you preserve me to be, and bid you adieu. I wish you luck on this blog you're running. I know it might seem odd for me to say this as one of these "Suethors" that you write about, but I actually have a lot of respect for you and what your doing. I find it quite impressive, although I still say you should consider letting the authors know you're writing about them. They could use your help and insight, like I did, although I also understand the reluctance, given how uncivil people can can be, I sincerely hope I haven't come across as such.

-Piper-Audrey

[pottersues]

First, you've not come across as uncivil at all, but I do think you'll understand what we're saying a lot more when you've got more experience under your belt. Just be patient for yourself. The point of bringing things up isn't to win the debate, but to hopefully make you think, which you're doing far better then other writers who've found their stories here.

This said, the argument you put forth doesn't work.

First, the example you gave can be interpreted as someone whose annoyed with the person they're in love with, questioning whether they are really in love. Second, a writer can still write an essay proving that the man is in love with said person. That sentence would amount 1% or less of a given work, so if the context of the other 99% indicates the man is in love, than that one sentence wouldn't matter. The reader can argue what I mentioned at the beginning of this paragraph, bur they could argue it's a mistake on the writers part.