I have a problem with her, and this question is a part of it. What is she really thinks and wants, with her life, with Jack... I can't catch on her.
First, when I learned that she was in a convent, I interpreted it as "oh, so probably she was educated/raised there, a school for girls or maybe an orphanage". Then I heard about the vows and I was "WTF? She planned to stay there? She...?!". Nope, I don't buy this. She could think so, but I don't buy anyway.
Was she trying to convince Jack or herself? Probably herself, more than Jack. I think it can be the key issue for her character. For now, I see her like this: even if she wasn't a ward of the convent in her childhood, it impressed her very much. She became a real believer but it didn't turn out beneficial for her, in long term. I suppose she was teached to see life in black and white and she thinks that any departure from pious life is moral decline, no matter that pious life doesn't fit her nature. So, when she fell in love with Jack, she thought it was her fail, not to mention about the choice of pirate's life. And she blames Jack for this. Furthermore, maybe she still thinks 'pirate = wrong'? After years of this life, has she still a lesson to do, which Will Turner understood after few days in CotBP? Of course, it annoys Jack, it must! First, he doesn't agree to bear responsibility for other's decisions. Second, piracy is freedom for him, also in meaning of the independence of moral choices, I think. Quite the contrary to her? Very probably.
I think I see her in a little different light. The clue comes in her elusiveness about Jack being "her first"... because he wasn't (a point which is driving him crazy).
As I said earlier, convents were often used as a juvenile home. I can see her as more of a wild child, a product of her father, even though she didn't realize as much until later in life. Such news was probably a bit of relief to her, because then she knew it was bloodlines, and not that she was intrinsically bad. (Back then, they seemed to see a difference between bad by choice and bad because of blood.)
"I was ready to take my vows" is more trying to convince Jack... and than herself (every bit of guilt she could throw on him the better), although she'd like to think that if she tried hard enough, she could have made it. At some point or another, Jack "inadvertantly set her on a wicked path" which meant she finally decided that was much more fun than the trying to be good. Or, it could be the "if I pray hard enough on Sunday, then I'm clear to raise hell the rest of the week."
She's now in the position of discovering her long lost father is a monster, but even abused children still love the very one abusing them. Her faith tells her he can be saved, but in the back of her mind, she has to be wondering if the same will ever apply for her. She doesn't seem to be so pious that she thinks herself and her actions as being above it all.
The interesting chemistry is that Jack is finding himself of being in love with someone exactly like himself... and he knows what a slippery slope that can be. Like always, trust is his biggest issue, and he knows he can't trust her, nor can he trust himself around her.
She's managed to put a pretty big guilt trip on him, which he can't bring himself to admit because that would make him an even bigger sucker. He'd rather look like the huge cad for leaving her as opposed to the embarrassment of being the one left.
Nothing written in stone, just observations. As I said, she's an open canvas. Let's start painting!
I see. Your Angelica is more wicked, my - more hesitant and lost, then. Heh, it's also possible that I just can't really accept her as truly sly & villainous. Long before OST I've been very skeptical about all that 'Jack's equal' or rather 'someone like Jack', woman or no. Still I am, deep in heart, I think.
The clue comes in her elusiveness about Jack being "her first"... because he wasn't (a point which is driving him crazy). But isn't it still rather unclear - he was or he wasn't? She tries to make him guilty about it, she depicts it as seduction, but again - he's indignant and points at her 'technique'. I'm wondering, what annoys him more - the question of 'first' or her accusations? ;D
He'd rather look like the huge cad for leaving her as opposed to the embarrassment of being the one left. Yes, they both seem to feel like this. Matter of pride, indeed.
"Her first" because he wasn't. I'm figuring there was another, possibly a part (along with a number of other misdeeds)of the reason she was put in the convent. A loss or deception she won't either admit or discuss, which goes to the larger issue of trust, as far as Jack is concerned. Her "spiritedness" would help explain how readily she fell into the pirate world (or so we're led to believe), more so than if she had been some innocent waiting to take her vows.
I'll admit I liked the concept of "the equal" right off. And when I saw the "stay out of it" clip, I knew Jack had found one, or at least one that would keep him on his toes. A love interest was a vacuum that screamed to be filled, and why not one that can at least equal him in manipulation and deception?
It could be said that he's more in love than she. She tends to pull it out of the bag when she needs it, knowing she can get to him (which he knows as well). On the journey to the Fountain, he knows he's about to be made the sacrificial lamb, and yet he plays along, primarily for her sake (as I see it :))
at least one that would keep him on his toes With this I agree, but... equal him in manipulation and deception No way! Not really! I just need it. ;D
It could be said that he's more in love than she. Ah, yes. It's another interesting thing. You say - he's more? I thought that maybe she hides her feelings, but whatever is the reason, indeed - it's visible that he cares for her, when she tries to kill him. I'd like to put it down to her vehemence, not calculation. Nevertheless, he tries to save her, repeatedly and at risk of his own life. It's also interesting that Jack seems to be more touched by her words than her violence.
<<<.....Jack seems to be more touched by her words than her violence....>>>>>
He comes from a violent world, a place where if you're not, you're dead. It's also a place (pirate world, at least) where a pledge/oath is one's bond. Yeah, he does tend to play fast and loose with words, but he still has a strong sense of obligation. (Witness his word to Barbossa that he'll have his chance at Blackbeard.)
Not sure if Angelica hides her feelings, or just doesn't what to acknowledge them, because like Jack, she knows the price it could bring. Vehemence for sure. Her emotions are probably what have been her boon and bane.
First, when I learned that she was in a convent, I interpreted it as "oh, so probably she was educated/raised there, a school for girls or maybe an orphanage". Then I heard about the vows and I was "WTF? She planned to stay there? She...?!". Nope, I don't buy this. She could think so, but I don't buy anyway.
Was she trying to convince Jack or herself?
Probably herself, more than Jack. I think it can be the key issue for her character. For now, I see her like this: even if she wasn't a ward of the convent in her childhood, it impressed her very much. She became a real believer but it didn't turn out beneficial for her, in long term. I suppose she was teached to see life in black and white and she thinks that any departure from pious life is moral decline, no matter that pious life doesn't fit her nature. So, when she fell in love with Jack, she thought it was her fail, not to mention about the choice of pirate's life. And she blames Jack for this. Furthermore, maybe she still thinks 'pirate = wrong'? After years of this life, has she still a lesson to do, which Will Turner understood after few days in CotBP?
Of course, it annoys Jack, it must! First, he doesn't agree to bear responsibility for other's decisions. Second, piracy is freedom for him, also in meaning of the independence of moral choices, I think. Quite the contrary to her? Very probably.
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As I said earlier, convents were often used as a juvenile home. I can see her as more of a wild child, a product of her father, even though she didn't realize as much until later in life. Such news was probably a bit of relief to her, because then she knew it was bloodlines, and not that she was intrinsically bad. (Back then, they seemed to see a difference between bad by choice and bad because of blood.)
"I was ready to take my vows" is more trying to convince Jack... and than herself (every bit of guilt she could throw on him the better), although she'd like to think that if she tried hard enough, she could have made it. At some point or another, Jack "inadvertantly set her on a wicked path" which meant she finally decided that was much more fun than the trying to be good. Or, it could be the "if I pray hard enough on Sunday, then I'm clear to raise hell the rest of the week."
She's now in the position of discovering her long lost father is a monster, but even abused children still love the very one abusing them. Her faith tells her he can be saved, but in the back of her mind, she has to be wondering if the same will ever apply for her. She doesn't seem to be so pious that she thinks herself and her actions as being above it all.
The interesting chemistry is that Jack is finding himself of being in love with someone exactly like himself... and he knows what a slippery slope that can be. Like always, trust is his biggest issue, and he knows he can't trust her, nor can he trust himself around her.
She's managed to put a pretty big guilt trip on him, which he can't bring himself to admit because that would make him an even bigger sucker. He'd rather look like the huge cad for leaving her as opposed to the embarrassment of being the one left.
Nothing written in stone, just observations. As I said, she's an open canvas. Let's start painting!
Reply
The clue comes in her elusiveness about Jack being "her first"... because he wasn't (a point which is driving him crazy).
But isn't it still rather unclear - he was or he wasn't? She tries to make him guilty about it, she depicts it as seduction, but again - he's indignant and points at her 'technique'. I'm wondering, what annoys him more - the question of 'first' or her accusations? ;D
He'd rather look like the huge cad for leaving her as opposed to the embarrassment of being the one left.
Yes, they both seem to feel like this. Matter of pride, indeed.
Reply
I'll admit I liked the concept of "the equal" right off. And when I saw the "stay out of it" clip, I knew Jack had found one, or at least one that would keep him on his toes. A love interest was a vacuum that screamed to be filled, and why not one that can at least equal him in manipulation and deception?
It could be said that he's more in love than she. She tends to pull it out of the bag when she needs it, knowing she can get to him (which he knows as well). On the journey to the Fountain, he knows he's about to be made the sacrificial lamb, and yet he plays along, primarily for her sake (as I see it :))
Reply
With this I agree, but...
equal him in manipulation and deception
No way! Not really! I just need it. ;D
It could be said that he's more in love than she.
Ah, yes. It's another interesting thing. You say - he's more? I thought that maybe she hides her feelings, but whatever is the reason, indeed - it's visible that he cares for her, when she tries to kill him. I'd like to put it down to her vehemence, not calculation. Nevertheless, he tries to save her, repeatedly and at risk of his own life. It's also interesting that Jack seems to be more touched by her words than her violence.
Reply
He comes from a violent world, a place where if you're not, you're dead. It's also a place (pirate world, at least) where a pledge/oath is one's bond. Yeah, he does tend to play fast and loose with words, but he still has a strong sense of obligation. (Witness his word to Barbossa that he'll have his chance at Blackbeard.)
Not sure if Angelica hides her feelings, or just doesn't what to acknowledge them, because like Jack, she knows the price it could bring. Vehemence for sure. Her emotions are probably what have been her boon and bane.
Reply
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