why I have trouble respecting beard-in-the-sky-god-religions, take six million

[porphyre]

The biggest news of the day: South Dakota has passed a law that outlaws abortion in almost all cases and does not protect a woman in cases of rape or incest or even when her health is in danger. Doctors who violate the ban could face up to five years in prison

Comments

[sciencequeen]

Have you seen this?

http://mollysavestheday.blogspot.com/2006/02/for-women-of-south-dakota-abortion.html

A woman describes how someone can perform at-home abortions. Note that she doesn't *actually* advocate doing it. (I got the link from this article: http://www.boingboing.net/2006/02/28/howto_set_up_a_diy_a.html)

Also, if you haven't already seen this:

http://www.ffrf.org/index.php

The Freedom from Religion Foundation...aiming to seperate church from state.

(btw sorry I had to do that 3 times)

[porphyre]

I have seen those. I've actually helped a friend use vitaman C and parsley. It does work, though you feel terrible briefly, mostly because parsley is mildly poisonous.

[canadian_lakini]

celery and parsley juice apparently works also

loudly under-educated fundies

[reluctance]

While I agree that the situation in South Dakota is an unmitigated catastrophe for women's health and reproductive rights in the USA, I take umbrage at the notion that the only reason someone might have to disagree with you (even on important issues such as this) is ignorance or stupidity (or, in a pinch, evil); there are plenty of intelligent, well-educated people who, due to sharing a different value system, aren't on the same page as you. You can't engage them without understanding them, and you can't understand them if you reduce them to ad hominem caricatures.

I entirely agree with you

[porphyre]

I mention under-educated because, without exception, every time I've had to deal with a clinic picket, the people involved have been sorely in need of some reading that isn't The Good Book. It easily could be my luck of the draw. I would never claim they're evil. I understand why people would fight for this so drastically if they truly believe that life begins at conception, but I mention under-educated because every time I have tried to talk with these people, I have been rebuffed by out-right refusal to put any of the issues up for discussion. I have had GOD HATES YOU INFIDELS shouted in my face, when all I asked was why they weren't trying to act more reasonably about their beliefs.

out-right refusal to put any of the issues up for discussion

[reluctance]

Well yes, how to engage people who refuse to engage you is another matter entirely. (Divorce them of the mob lending them courage and of the provocative context of the abortion clinic directly before them and I think some flavour of rapprochement might be more reachable, one-on-one: why do you believe this, do you understand how political change is conventionally enacted in this society, etc. Unfortunately for South Dakota, it turns out that they do seem to have a pretty good idea how to go about getting these things done.)

I mention under-educated because, without exception, every time I've had to deal with a clinic picket...

I saw your specific example and read a general application from its adjectives: my lousy interpretation.

Re: loudly under-educated fundies

[arrogant_gamer]

Hi

I don't know: are there intelligent pro-lifers? People love to claim that we shouldn't generalize, but I have yet to be directed to a pro-lifer who could explain the pro-life position intelligently without relying on religious writings. I don't believe that every opinion has a reasoned origin, and I think that there may be positions that are simply not supported by reasonable people.

z.

touchy subject

[penumbra604]

short of Muhammad bashing, few things get people as riled up as abortion debates

Re: touchy subject

[porphyre]

A lot of might have to do, too, with the fact that they're in decline.

[thegodofwar]

They had to come up with some way to make North Dakota look appealing!

[porphyre]

They're losing thier children, you know. Apparently they're all moving away.

[litlebopeepshow]

-Just so you know both Curves (the women's only gym) and Royal Bank give sizable donations to anti-choice groups. So if your pro choice go to a different gym and bank, don't unknowingly support those groups.

-The idea of someone using abortion is as a form of birth control is ridiculous, no one would willingly put their body through that when there are other options.

-The other appalling thing that’s happening in the states is the fact that pharmacists have the right to refuse to give someone birth control.

me, I'm a vancity member

[porphyre]

Pharmacists only have the right in particular states, thankfully. And thank you for telling people about the companies who we don't want ot support.