David Brooks gives a reasoned voice to this perspective.
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The struggle against Islamic extremism has been crippled by a failure of historical awareness and cultural understanding. From the very beginning, we have treated the problem of terrorism through the prism of our own assumptions and our own values. We have solipsistically assumed that people turn to extremism because they can’t get what we want, and fail to realize that they don’t want what we want, but want something they think is higher.
[...]
At the summit meeting, President Obama gave the conventional materialistic explanation for what turns people into terrorists. Terrorism spreads, he argued, where people lack economic opportunity and good schools. The way to fight terror, he concluded, is with better job-training programs, more shared wealth, more open political regimes, and a general message of tolerance and pluralism.
In short, the president took his secular domestic agenda and projected it as a way to prevent young men from joining ISIS and chopping off heads.
But people don’t join ISIS, or the Islamic State, because they want better jobs with more benefits. ISIS is one of a long line of anti-Enlightenment movements, led by people who have contempt for the sort of materialistic, bourgeois goals that dominate our politics. These people don’t care if their earthly standard of living improves by a few percent a year. They’re disgusted by the pleasures we value, the pluralism we prize and the emphasis on happiness in this world, which we take as public life’s ultimate end.
Well, Brooks is a conservative, and conservatives do share some of the elements of the Islamists' critique of Western materialism, even as they enjoy all the wealth and pleasures that the world affords.
Even on gay marriage, which he supports, he came across condescending with his distinction on how conservatives should justify it (good) versus liberals (bad).
Don't brake your heads - it's very simple. They want caliphate and they say so. They want caliphate over thousand years and they getting there slowly. Remember Constantinople? Next stop - Rome, they said so. Instead of fruitless exercise of psychoanalysis, everybidy should just listen to them.
To get to the caliphate, they know they have to launch a global war.
And the GOP is just stupid enough to give it to them.
If you want to win the global war of terror, which you don't, you have to make Islam less exciting and rebellious, not more. And for god sakes don't ask western Muslims to choose between the west and Islam.
Who they? Marie Harf? Yes, she is damn enough. What GOP has to do with anything? They have no say in this matter, except moron McCain. I don't want to win war on terror? What are you talking about? How the heck anybody can make Islam less exciting, by providing jobs jihadists? I am not advocating IIRC, because I have no idea what it is.
Yes, nobody knows exactly how many, they hide in general population so far. A lot of people thought that Churchill was irrational. But all they need to do to take over the governments of the respective countries, then everybody in this countries will become jihadist, for lack of other choice. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the possibility is there. I would give 30% chance, if I was betting.
<<<<<<<<<<<<
The struggle against Islamic extremism has been crippled by a failure of historical awareness and cultural understanding. From the very beginning, we have treated the problem of terrorism through the prism of our own assumptions and our own values. We have solipsistically assumed that people turn to extremism because they can’t get what we want, and fail to realize that they don’t want what we want, but want something they think is higher.
[...]
At the summit meeting, President Obama gave the conventional materialistic explanation for what turns people into terrorists. Terrorism spreads, he argued, where people lack economic opportunity and good schools. The way to fight terror, he concluded, is with better job-training programs, more shared wealth, more open political regimes, and a general message of tolerance and pluralism.
In short, the president took his secular domestic agenda and projected it as a way to prevent young men from joining ISIS and chopping off heads.
But people don’t join ISIS, or the Islamic State, because they want better jobs with more benefits. ISIS is one of a long line of anti-Enlightenment movements, led by people who have contempt for the sort of materialistic, bourgeois goals that dominate our politics. These people don’t care if their earthly standard of living improves by a few percent a year. They’re disgusted by the pleasures we value, the pluralism we prize and the emphasis on happiness in this world, which we take as public life’s ultimate end.
-- David Brooks at NYT
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He's not advocating a 'clash of civilization' argument, but only seems to be suggesting that the problem is more nuanced.
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Instead of fruitless exercise of psychoanalysis, everybidy should just listen to them.
Reply
To get to the caliphate, they know they have to launch a global war.
And the GOP is just stupid enough to give it to them.
If you want to win the global war of terror, which you don't, you have to make Islam less exciting and rebellious, not more. And for god sakes don't ask western Muslims to choose between the west and Islam.
Which, IIRC is exactly what you are advocating.
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What GOP has to do with anything? They have no say in this matter, except moron McCain.
I don't want to win war on terror? What are you talking about? How the heck anybody can make Islam less exciting, by providing jobs jihadists?
I am not advocating IIRC, because I have no idea what it is.
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2014:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/11/isis-iraq-numbers_n_5659239.html
2015:
http://www.vocativ.com/world/isis-2/how-big-is-isis/
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A lot of people thought that Churchill was irrational. But all they need to do to take over the governments of the respective countries, then everybody in this countries will become jihadist, for lack of other choice. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the possibility is there. I would give 30% chance, if I was betting.
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