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brother_dour January 26 2014, 02:41:14 UTC
War is unavoidable.

Having said that, unavoidable =/= "we need cheaper gas prices!"

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cinnamontoast January 26 2014, 17:42:30 UTC
Why is war unavoidable? I don't think it is. In fact, I think that someday it will be something that humans will look at as part of our barbaric past.

Why do I think this way? Slowly, people are beginning to realize that even their enemies are human beings and not the parodies of evil that they've been made out to be by the ruling factions of society. Our barriers are coming down and with electronic devices individuals can communicate directly with each other. This includes language barriers - Eventually the world will speak one language.

I don't expect to see an end to war. I don't expect that war will end in the next century. I do think it will end though. Eventually the idea that war is an unacceptable way for governments to handle conflict will catch on.

Yes, those are my rose colored glasses.

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telemann January 26 2014, 17:56:47 UTC
Yeah, we're free agents. Nothing in inevitable. According to Robert McNamara (President Kennedy's Defense Secretary) it was a foregone conclusion in the late 1950s, and early 1960s nuclear war was inevitable.

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cinnamontoast January 27 2014, 05:47:37 UTC
Yep. And all the attending fears. I'm so glad I never lived through a nuclear winter. We were all convinced that we would have to eventually.

*whew*

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brother_dour January 27 2014, 02:09:01 UTC
I believe that Thomas Robert Malthus will eventually be proven correct. And when not if he is, it will get ugly. Then again, my firm belief in original sin and all that implies about people probably has a lot of influence on my outlook too...

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cinnamontoast January 27 2014, 05:46:02 UTC
In effect, wars will be needed to reduce the population because our population will be too great and we will have to fight over the resources available? That's kind of what I got in the basic "I'm half asleep and reading" Wiki skim.

What does original sin have to do with it? That people are brought into this world inherently evil and are taught to be good?

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brother_dour January 28 2014, 03:13:12 UTC
wars will be needed to reduce the population because our population will be too great and we will have to fight over the resources available?

Not necessarily needed- if and when we get to that point there's a lot of ways the excess population can die. I think those wars will be inevitable.

That people are brought into this world inherently evil and are taught to be good?

That's part of it, yes. The other part is man's fallen nature, which basically says human beings collectively will never conquer their inherent predisposition to be dirty rat bastards. So we're stuck with the bad stuff like wars for as long as humans exist as a species...

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cinnamontoast January 28 2014, 16:38:22 UTC
That's part of it, yes. The other part is man's fallen nature, which basically says human beings collectively will never conquer their inherent predisposition to be dirty rat bastards.

Then we have a basic disagreement over the nature of human beings that cannot be resolved. As much as I hate it when people say 'we'll have to agree to disagree,' (because it's totally passive aggressive and nothing was ever solved or worked out that way) I think this is honestly one of those times. It's an insight into both of us, yes?

That said, I can see wars over resources.

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brother_dour January 29 2014, 04:59:51 UTC
I hope that you are right about human nature, and I am wrong.

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telemann January 28 2014, 17:53:07 UTC
That's part of it, yes. The other part is man's fallen nature, which basically says human beings collectively will never conquer their inherent predisposition to be dirty rat bastard.

That's theology (total depravity of man, or original sin and not fact)

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