OH FANDOM YOU NEVER DISAPPOINT: Game of Thrones edition

[pocochina]

So about five months ago, I had every intention of writing about at least one narrative decision which I love and which fandom hates. And then I got sidetracked from the meme (not sure why, since opening up this document I see that I had several of them either planned or done???) but also, which decision? I've already talked about plenty of roundly

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[sherrilina]

rosaxx50 just linked me to this post. I did not even remember Ellaria's speech about ~peace~ tbh, so that is not why I was irritated with her attitude in the episode. It's the fact that their tactic of choice now seems to be "mutilate and kill a little girl to get revenge!" instead of "let's put HER on the throne because according to our laws she would succeed Joffrey." That is what Arianne was actually pushing for, and I think it makes for a much more interesting story, highlighting how different their society is, and the gender politics in Westeros (like how if Cersei had been in Dorne, she would have been heir to Casterly Rock).

And yes, obviously they had to cut somewhere, but why not one or more Sand Snakes? They are faaar more extraneous and less interesting, well-realized characters (and you know the chances of all three being well-realized on this show are pretty low), and yet they added them at the expense of Arianne. They could have even had 2 Sand Snakes and Arianne, to have the same number--who remembers all 3's personalities? I havent watched rhe leaked episodes yet, but from the sound of it the SS on the show are cheesy af.

I'll have to check out your ATS meta, because I loooove season 4! ;)

[sakuraberries]

instead of "let's put HER on the throne because according to our laws she would succeed Joffrey.

Exactly. The entire point of Dorne is that it operates differently from Westerosi patriarchal norms, and yet that is totally excluded.

I think everyone assumed the Sand Snakes would all but cut and their characters merged with Arianne's, which would have made a lot more sense, which is why it was such a shock when we found out it was Arianne who was being cut.

[sherrilina]

Yes, that is what I remember everyone theorizing re: the Sand Snakes. It was when they began casting all THREE Sand Snakes that things became worrisome...

[pocochina]

"let's put HER on the throne because according to our laws she would succeed Joffrey." That is what Arianne was actually pushing for, and I think it makes for a much more interesting story

I don't think that would have been better, though? I think it would have created a lot of unnecessary complications. It's a plot that takes a whole book to go nowhere. It would have required introducing and centralizing a new character, because it is character-specific to Arianne. Arianne doesn't do it because it's a sincere feminist statement and/or an objectively good plan. She does it because she's afraid her father has passed her over for Quentyn and she wants to act against him and with her cousins. And it's not actually necessary to showing how different Dorne is from the rest of Westeros. The fact that Ellaria can get in the prince's face like that, when she is (a) a woman and (b) legally, no one important, shows us plenty.

obviously they had to cut somewhere, but why not one or more Sand Snakes?

There are eight Sand Snakes and three have been cast. (And one more mentioned, but AFAIK Elia Sand hasn't been cast yet?) And what is exciting about the Sand Snakes is that they are a group of women, and there are not a whole lot of opportunities to bring up that dynamic, not because D&D HATE WOMEN!!!!! but because Martin wrote a pretty realistic take on the demographics of power players in the era that he chose. Arianne being the legitimate heir sets her apart from her cousins, is a pretty big part of her storyline in the books, but one that would take a lot more time than this one side storyline really needs.

[sherrilina]

They wouldn't have necessarily had to go into the Quentyn thing, or have even involved Arianne--it could have just been a power play by the Sand Snakes and Ellaria as a way to get influence through Trystane, etc--a new  element of the ongoing civil war/game of thrones. Sure it's not ultimately successful, but neither were the bids by Robb, Renley, or Flopjoy--that doesn't mean they didn't make for some interesting drama in the meantime. We could have seen Cersei be conflicted about it as well, etc. It would be more interesting and less pointless than a lot of the other stuff they include on the show, like the entirety of the Craster's Keep storyline post-Jeor's death last year, or 5 minute monologues about beatles, or the magical dick of Podrick Payne (not to mention what it sounds like they have in store with Trystane/Myrcella).

And lol are there really 8 Sand Snakes? I don't remember meeting more than 3 in Dorne...(plus the one pretending to be a boy in Maesterland). I don't think the Sand Snakes we never meet really count in terms of adapting the TV show anyway. But good point re: group of women.

Also, I don't think that Ellaria can really serve the same function as LS on the TV show (as you are arguing here), since on the show she was never really developed as a peacemaker, etc, like she was apparently in the books--so there is no changed caused by bitterness and revenge....(and I say this as someone who is not nearly as fussed by the loss of LS as some quarters of fandom).