SPN 9x10 - Road Trip

[pocochina]

Metatron’s mind games with Gadreel were pitch-perfect. He rides Gadreel about you’re a screw-up, nobody’ll have you but me, you have to fight more and harder and maybe just maybe I’ll give you a way out of this shame spiral which you’re only in because you’re such a failure, have we talked lately about how I’m a saint for not reminding you of that

Comments

[pocochina]

Not consciously mind but I feel like Dean wanted to hear from his brother or Castiel that he wasn't all bad or that hey understood or some minor ego-stroking and when he didn't get it he didn't really know what to do. Dean loves to guilt-trip so I saw it less as wanting the confrontation as needing (desperately needing) the validation.

Exactly. He either wanted Sam to fuss over him and comfort him, or failing that, to blow his top and give away some vulnerability that Dean could use to turn it around on him. I think that's why Sam not giving an inch is pissing people off so much? Not because it was Sam not being nice enough - because he clearly had grounds to be a whole lot worse - but because Dean was flailing around for the upper hand and for once he could not get it.

I don't know that I'd say his past attitude toward Sam was ever justified, to be honest, particularly since it took root when they were all so young. I do think there were times where it was a self-fulfilling prophecy, particularly through S4, but also with Soulless - he treated Sam like an enemy until Sam had to take more and more dangerous defensive stances.

Also Sam as "Sloppy Seconds." Because the rape-y imagery of Sam Winchester isn't there enough.

As much as I get why that might've been tough for people to hear, I wasn't bothered by the line? I would rather a million times over that the show jump up and down on the rape metaphor and make it undeniable than leave it all vague and implied and let the audience get away with the coded victim-blaming crap that gets thrown around.

[a_white_rain]

Re: the rape line

I'm speaking as a victim here but some part of me is like SERVES U RITE U MAN CREATURE but then it dies because I know male survivors and no one deserves to be talked about that way. But the fact that Sam is a white guy makes it easy for me to digest in the sense these jokes are common place and wtf wouldn't he? When it's a woman it just bugs me cos I live it and don't want to see it. as for men of color - their violations are often racial in a way I don't know emotionally and so I would have a total different emotional reaction

//SUBJECTIVE

[pocochina]

That's a fair point. I think I tend to do better with certain things made more direct and explicit, rather than less, but I'm not sure if I would've had the same reaction if the visual had been a little bit different.

[cuddyclothes]

Why is it that I don't get triggered or even consider lines like that "rapey"? Don't apologize, don't explain, that's my motto. OH SHIT I'M DEAN.

[blackjedii]

I mean justified by "the universe" or by Deans own rules to clarify. Which I think you've already done a post on how wrong that is but it's still given Dean plenty of fuel to work with. Which is why I'm double glad that he didn't get away with it this time, although I really don't see anything changing anymore. He's had far too many times where he's come out int he right - or at least less wrong than Sam to think otherwise.

I think that's why Sam not giving an inch is pissing people off so much?
I don't eve think it's that Sam lashed out so much as Dean is played by Jensen Ackles and has gained Ultimate Woobie status. Because Dean can be cured if only he had some hot soup and a blanket an someone to cuddle or such.