I’m not sure AtS had much to model itself after on this
Soap operas. I'm trying to think of other examples of serialized TV shows prior to AtS, but I'm coming up empty. Soaps were pretty much it. Doesn't one of the characters refer to their lives as "a turgid supernatural soap opera"? Or maybe that was Tim Minear. :D
EDIT: OH! Babylon 5! That was a serialized, 5-year story arc. And of course comic books, which is the world from which the creator of B5 came, and of which Whedon is a lifelong fan.
Many of the Boreanaz timing issues you mention could have been fixed in editing. It's not like theatre or a live broadcast, where you MUST get the timing right. Not sure why things like that weren't tightened up - unless they had to add a few seconds here or there to make the show long enough.
"Turgid supernatural soap opera" is almost certainly a line from the show? I'm associating it with the Gunn/Gwen episode for some reason (though that might just be that I really liked Gunn/Gwen, lol).
Babylon 5 has been on my list for AGES but it seems never to be available? Netflix Instant doesn't wanna, the library doesn't have it, boooooo.
Many of the Boreanaz timing issues you mention could have been fixed in editing. It's not like theatre or a live broadcast, where you MUST get the timing right. Not sure why things like that weren't tightened up - unless they had to add a few seconds here or there to make the show long enough.
Yeah, I wonder if it wasn't something happening so often that they just stopped realizing it was a problem.
I have a love/hate relationship with Babylon 5. I first watched it years ago, back before my critical TV faculties had developed, and I loved the story and the characters. But even back then, I could tell that the acting was really uneven and that the dialogue was clunky - way, WAY too much exposition. I'm sure if I watched it again now I would spend the entire time comparing it unfavorably to BSG. ;)
Yeah, I wonder if it wasn't something happening so often that they just stopped realizing it was a problem.
I agree on the uneveness of the acting, although the actors for G'Kar and Londo hit it out of the park consistently. For all the clunky dialog and other problems B5 has scenes I remember to this day even after 20 years, which I can't say for many shows. When it was good it was on the top of the game. I'm sorry it's not available streaming because it had some great moments and it stuck to it's arc in a very satisfying way. Well until it was canceled, so JMS wrapped the story and then it got uncanceled and the last season is not the best.
I have less of a problem with the Cordy thing in isolation. I mean, in context of Darla and Fred and, you know, the ~everything, it's pretty grating, but this was the least bothersome storyline of them to me? It was such a drawn-out *painful* "bad things happen to good people" which is totally my jam, so.
Interesting. I wonder if there's a record somewhere about the origins of serialised television.
I read a couple of books this summer that were really interesting looks at how television's changed in the last fifteen or twenty years, The Revolution Was Televised by Alan Sepinwall and Difficult Men by Brett Martin. The first one was more about television generally, and it touched on Buffy, of course. The second one was about the ~gritty antihero trend from The Sopranos to Breaking Bad. And that one could've mined a fair amount out of AtS. (The focus was on cable, but still.)
*choking* WHICH SCENE EXACTLY WAS THIS, I MUST KNOW. You'd think they'd have used a better take. ;D It's right before the Beast does the spell to hide the sun
( ... )
It's really something special! I think Buffy and Angel were among the first shows I watched in a compressed amount of time and got fannish and excited about, so I didn't really appreciate it as being innovative, if that makes sense? But now, having watched and thought about some of the other ~landmark television shows, I really do.
I have no objections to them in principle but I can't make a blanket approve-or-disapprove statement because my reactions can vary so much.
Yeah, I get that. I think it's my love of anything that hacks fandom off for dumb reasons, lol. Because in a lot of cases, fandom angst about retcons is really just people getting pressed over the reminder that they don't actually know everything. HA HA.
Well you know how I feel about AtS s4 as well. And yes, the pacing was absolutely amazing for s4 and that might be why I loved it so much. (Actually, I have something of the same reaction to Torchwood: Children of Earth after the episodic stuff of s1-2 of TW.)
Lol retcons are... I have to say, I generally hate them because I want authors to work within established parameters of what's already happened--to see how creative they can get. I didn't mind the AtS s4 one because it was creative, but a lot of the time retcons are cop-outs that deflate the emotion surrounding an event/avoid consequences (Oh no, he killed people/evil/must be stopped! But wait, no he didn't really and that's why he's allowed back on our screens!).
ooooh, yeah, agreed on Torchwood stepping it up when it became more episodic. I finally saw Miracle Day last month and really enjoyed that, too. By comparison, I watched S1-2 but hardly remember any of it.
a lot of the time retcons are cop-outs that deflate the emotion surrounding an event/avoid consequences (Oh no, he killed people/evil/must be stopped! But wait, no he didn't really and that's why he's allowed back on our screens!)
lol, but retcons are hardly the only reason Day of the Doctor was bleh.
I am a few episodes into S3 of my AtS rewatch. I really dislike this part of the series and it's been so long since I rewatched that I can't speak much to S4 bc I can't remember it. I do agree about Boreanaz's timing. He is fabulously brilliant as Angelus or as the super angsty Angel who is defying all of his friends and being selfish!vampirewithasoul. But there are beats he misses, although I wonder if that is direction, too, about how they wanted the special effects and the dialogue to piece together. Could it also be post-production editing. The thing that bothers me about him in early AtS, is that his overwrought guilt is *OVERWROUGHT*. He is mesmerizing on screen though, and I forgive what sometimes seems like overacting in the same way I forgive it in Jamie at times. You are so right when you say he is a great physical actor. I think I sometimes don't realize it until he does a comedic bit, like the AWKWARD!Dancing early on (sorry, terrible with ep names). Some of the funniest bits of Whedon ever. OMG
( ... )
Yeah, the back half of S3 is not really the show's greatest run. Justine and Connor are pretty great, though! oooh, and Wes/Lilah is coming up soon!
The thing that bothers me about him in early AtS, is that his overwrought guilt is *OVERWROUGHT*. He is mesmerizing on screen though, and I forgive what sometimes seems like overacting
See, I never found that an acting problem? I thought that was an "*Angel* is a hugely self-absorbed, image-obsessed drama queen" thing.
Oh yes! Wes/Lilah! I was thinking of Lilah after I'd already left the comment. She is so great. I remember after my first watch, they were a couple I shipped for a while. Onward I go! :)
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Soap operas. I'm trying to think of other examples of serialized TV shows prior to AtS, but I'm coming up empty. Soaps were pretty much it. Doesn't one of the characters refer to their lives as "a turgid supernatural soap opera"? Or maybe that was Tim Minear. :D
EDIT: OH! Babylon 5! That was a serialized, 5-year story arc. And of course comic books, which is the world from which the creator of B5 came, and of which Whedon is a lifelong fan.
Many of the Boreanaz timing issues you mention could have been fixed in editing. It's not like theatre or a live broadcast, where you MUST get the timing right. Not sure why things like that weren't tightened up - unless they had to add a few seconds here or there to make the show long enough.
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Babylon 5 has been on my list for AGES but it seems never to be available? Netflix Instant doesn't wanna, the library doesn't have it, boooooo.
Many of the Boreanaz timing issues you mention could have been fixed in editing. It's not like theatre or a live broadcast, where you MUST get the timing right. Not sure why things like that weren't tightened up - unless they had to add a few seconds here or there to make the show long enough.
Yeah, I wonder if it wasn't something happening so often that they just stopped realizing it was a problem.
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Yeah, I wonder if it wasn't something happening so often that they just stopped realizing it was a problem.
Snerk.
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most (all?) episodes pick up right where the last one left off and happen over the course of a few hours to a couple of days.
Interesting. I wonder if there's a record somewhere about the origins of serialised television.
ANGEL: Don’t let it…
[HOLD PLEASE]…..
EXPLOSION: *eventually happens*)
*choking* WHICH SCENE EXACTLY WAS THIS, I MUST KNOW. You'd think they'd have used a better take. ;D
Reply
Interesting. I wonder if there's a record somewhere about the origins of serialised television.
I read a couple of books this summer that were really interesting looks at how television's changed in the last fifteen or twenty years, The Revolution Was Televised by Alan Sepinwall and Difficult Men by Brett Martin. The first one was more about television generally, and it touched on Buffy, of course. The second one was about the ~gritty antihero trend from The Sopranos to Breaking Bad. And that one could've mined a fair amount out of AtS. (The focus was on cable, but still.)
*choking* WHICH SCENE EXACTLY WAS THIS, I MUST KNOW. You'd think they'd have used a better take. ;D It's right before the Beast does the spell to hide the sun ( ... )
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I have no objections to them in principle but I can't make a blanket approve-or-disapprove statement because my reactions can vary so much.
Yeah, I get that. I think it's my love of anything that hacks fandom off for dumb reasons, lol. Because in a lot of cases, fandom angst about retcons is really just people getting pressed over the reminder that they don't actually know everything. HA HA.
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Lol retcons are... I have to say, I generally hate them because I want authors to work within established parameters of what's already happened--to see how creative they can get. I didn't mind the AtS s4 one because it was creative, but a lot of the time retcons are cop-outs that deflate the emotion surrounding an event/avoid consequences (Oh no, he killed people/evil/must be stopped! But wait, no he didn't really and that's why he's allowed back on our screens!).
Reply
a lot of the time retcons are cop-outs that deflate the emotion surrounding an event/avoid consequences (Oh no, he killed people/evil/must be stopped! But wait, no he didn't really and that's why he's allowed back on our screens!)
lol, but retcons are hardly the only reason Day of the Doctor was bleh.
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The thing that bothers me about him in early AtS, is that his overwrought guilt is *OVERWROUGHT*. He is mesmerizing on screen though, and I forgive what sometimes seems like overacting
See, I never found that an acting problem? I thought that was an "*Angel* is a hugely self-absorbed, image-obsessed drama queen" thing.
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