a response to responses to criticisms of Dean throughout S9
In numerous meta communities, I've seen conversations of S9 which strike me as incomplete about some very important dimensions to the season, and I'd like to respond.
( cut for abuse triggers; discusses through the most recent episode )
( cut for abuse triggers; discusses through the most recent episode )
I'm fairly convinced that the reason we had GadSam tell Dean off angrily is because we are not going to get RealSam doing the same thing. I think that scene was for the benefit of people who wanted Sam to be mad. I'm starting to toy with the idea that when Sam finds out he will revert to his mindset at the church. He will feel like a failure for YET AGAIN not realizing he was being tricked by a supernatural creature. The fact that it isn't his fault in no way diminishes the fact that his own past mistakes that were reinforced by Dean's constant undermining of Sam had Sam convinced that he is not worthy. If anything he could feel worse. Fandom is already saying that Sam should have no trouble throwing Gad out. He took control from Lucifer after all. It ignores the facts that Sam doesn't know he has anyone to fight and that he is apparently so injured that he is still dying, but Sam might well ignore those facts as well. Dean has told him for years why he isn't strong enough, good enough, worthy enough. If Sam has internalized all that, his reaction could well be deep depression.
It might actually be interesting to see Sam actually act the way Dean and some of fandom sees him. Dean could well lose Sam to his version of incompetent brother who can't make decisions. Sam actually having the depressive breakdown that Dean has seen as being his sole right is one way for Dean to see how much he has damaged Sam. Dean wants control, but he also wants his brother to be by his side, enthusiastically doing what Dean wants. A Sam who is truly broken by Dean's actions MAY make Dean actually see how his actions affect Sam. Sam being angry and hurt are what Dean is used to. Sam is a forgiver. He gets angry and hurt, walks away to cool down and then Dean finds him demands he get over being a bitch about Dean's latest screw up and Sam does. So anger and hurt repeat that pattern that has kept this cycle of abuse going. A total emotional meltdown that Dean can't run away from (because his self image of perfect brother won't let him) may change that pattern.
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AAAAAAH I WOULD LOVE IT. I'm trying really hard to control expectations but I WOULD LOVE IT. Because yeah, it says a lot that even with something so relatively mild as "dick move" Charlie is one of an exceptionally small number of characters - perhaps the only character - in that she's told Dean he did something wrong and didn't soft-pedal it with a lot of ~~you just don't love yourself enough~~ backdoor non-flaws.
And yeah, the episode leaned so hard on Dean's fear of saying the actual words that I actually started to wonder if there was an eventual come-to-Jesus talk being set up to come from CAS of all people?!? Like, Cas could give him the exact same "if you thought you had to do it why'd you keep it a secret from me?" lecture Dean gave him in S6, and frankly have it be a lot more persuasive. ("Why didn't you involve ME in your heavenly insurrection I WOULD HAVE BEEN SO USEFUL IN THAT SITUATION" lol Dean.) And Dean taking a tumble off that particular pedestal would be good for all three of them, IMO, even Dean eventually, though I obviously care less about that.
Linda Tran is a likely candidate, but I worry that it might shift the focus a little? She has EVERY RIGHT IN THE WORLD to be angry on behalf of Kevin, no doubt, but on a narrative framing level (a) that confrontation would necessarily decentralize what Dean did TO SAM, when Sam's interest here needs attention in and of itself and (b) I worry that she'd get written off by enough of fandom as an angry woman just looking for someone to blame.
I'm fairly convinced that the reason we had GadSam tell Dean off angrily is because we are not going to get RealSam doing the same thing. I think that scene was for the benefit of people who wanted Sam to be mad.
I hadn't thought about it that way, but I do think you're right. IMO Gadreel is just an AMAZING deconstruction of "what Dean&viewers want Sam to be" and how much that is or isn't who Sam actually is. And in that scene, Gadreel was playing the "~~good victim who reacts right" that fandom is so irritated that Sam isn't, and isn't really all that likely to be.
Fandom is already saying that Sam should have no trouble throwing Gad out. He took control from Lucifer after all. It ignores the facts that Sam doesn't know he has anyone to fight and that he is apparently so injured that he is still dying, but Sam might well ignore those facts as well.
I am shocked, SHOCKED to find actual textbook victim-blaming goin' on in here!
Dean could well lose Sam to his version of incompetent brother who can't make decisions. Sam actually having the depressive breakdown that Dean has seen as being his sole right is one way for Dean to see how much he has damaged Sam. Dean wants control, but he also wants his brother to be by his side, enthusiastically doing what Dean wants. A Sam who is truly broken by Dean's actions MAY make Dean actually see how his actions affect Sam.
It's quite possible. I kind of hope not, because I still feel like that's what Dean *wants* on some level, is to have his image of Sam the Incompetent validated? But it's possible.
Sam is a forgiver. He gets angry and hurt, walks away to cool down and then Dean finds him demands he get over being a bitch about Dean's latest screw up and Sam does
heh, I'd kind of like to see Sam seize the home court advantage/moral high ground by telling Dean to take a hike out of the bunker and come home when Sam's ready. I HIGHLY doubt it will happen, though.
(That, or a chipper "well fuck it, I like being alive and having an angel owe me!" WILL NEVER HAPPEN BUT HAHAHAHA.)
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(That, or a chipper "well fuck it, I like being alive and having an angel owe me!" WILL NEVER HAPPEN BUT HAHAHAHA.)
As a resolution of Sam's abuse it would be great. On a fandom meta level (and on a Dean POV level) it would lead to Dean wasn't wrong because he violated Sam's will, Dean was wrong because Sam has once again let power go to his head. Sam loves being able to smite people just like with the demon blood and poor, sad martyr Dean must stop his angel powered brother who does bad things and once he is stopped Dean must never let Sam make another decision again. In this scenario, Kevin's death becomes the worst thing ever because Sam is accepting power at the expense of Kevin and saving Cas and Charlie will be totally forgotten, or put on the goodness of Gad while Sam the awful is just a guy willing to kill a friend for power. If Sam embraces his inner angel or accepts that Gad owes him a debt, eventually Dean will get Gad out of him or be "forced" to see that Sam is misusing Gad's debt for "bad" purposes (buying organic apples, letting a dog into the car, real sins here). It's too, too easy for Dean to turn Sam interacting with the supernatural on HIS OWN VOLITION into something bad. Dean must always be the intermediary because Dean is always right, Sam is always wrong and "look how you've screwed up this time Sam. First you trust Ruby, now you trust Gad. Honestly Sam you "must never go down to the end of town if you don't go down with me"".
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Yeah, I would totally like for her to be alive and to get her say, for sure. I just don't want her to be the only voice against the whole thing.
The chorus of "but Gad saved Cas and Charlie so doesn't that balance Kevin out?" just bugs
This does kind of make Cas an even more attractive candidate for Jiminy Cricket. "Yeah I'm alive BUT THIS WAS STILL A BAD IDEA." Though I feel a little bad wishing the burden of *being Dean's conscience* on anyone, even a character I'm significantly less attached to than my bby Cas.
I don't know. I want Dean to get read the riot act from someone about this, less for his benefit and more to make it as clear as possible to as much of the audience as possible what exactly has been going on here, but also, I think *Sam* really needs to hear some outside perspective from a person he trusts in order to break out of the head trip he's been getting for the past few years and especially for the past couple of months.
On a fandom meta level (and on a Dean POV level) it would lead to Dean wasn't wrong because he violated Sam's will, Dean was wrong because Sam has once again let power go to his head. Sam loves being able to smite people just like with the demon blood and poor, sad martyr Dean must stop his angel powered brother who does bad things and once he is stopped Dean must never let Sam make another decision again.
Yeah, that's true, though I kind of feel like people will spin it that way no matter what.
buying organic apples, letting a dog into the car, real sins here
LOL. Out loud.
It's too, too easy for Dean to turn Sam interacting with the supernatural on HIS OWN VOLITION into something bad. Dean must always be the intermediary because Dean is always right, Sam is always wrong and "look how you've screwed up this time Sam. First you trust Ruby, now you trust Gad. Honestly Sam you "must never go down to the end of town if you don't go down with me"".
That's one of the few things I don't have much doubt about, that he'll try to play it that way. But I think he's really overplayed his hand this time? Because now Sam can say (what I am hoping he will eventually learn to say) "well if I can't help myself WHOSE FAULT IS THAT, and if I can help myself, HOW IS IT YOUR BUSINESS, either way I don't trust your judgment more than my own any more." And seriously, Dean losing that hold over Sam is the best possible outcome in terms of Sam's well-being *and* sweet justice in terms of the blow to Dean's self-image.
And just like....as a narrative parallel thing, how amazing does that become if Sam picks up some angel power in the way he got powers from the demon blood? Because then the conversation becomes DEAN IS THE YED. I mean, the parallels started in Girl Next Door when he killed Amy in front of her son, but this is a whole new level.
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This would satisfy me on so many levels. I'm hoping this is the way they go with it. I really need Dean to accept responsibility for what he did to Sam rather than trying to blame Sam again.
Do you think Sam would tell Gad to just go ahead and take over because he's so obviously wrong about everything he does and can't stand this life anymore? I've read that Sam is suicidal in some future episodes.
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....it could happen! I'm not holding my breath, but it could happen. What I really want is for Sam not to blame Sam again, and not let Dean talk him into blaming himself.
Do you think Sam would tell Gad to just go ahead and take over because he's so obviously wrong about everything he does and can't stand this life anymore? I've read that Sam is suicidal in some future episodes.
I mean, he's still kind of between a rock and a hard place with this. If he evicts Gadreel, that's a potentially self-destructive action, since he's still "duct tape and safety pins inside," Dean's nonchalance notwithstanding. And if he doesn't, as you say, he's running the risk that Gadreel can take him over and destroy his identity. I'm not sure there's anything Sam can do at this point which can't be construed as suicidal behavior. Whether or not he is entirely committed to survival on these compromised terms is...I don't know, I really don't.
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