a response to responses to criticisms of Dean throughout S9

[pocochina]

In numerous meta communities, I've seen conversations of S9 which strike me as incomplete about some very important dimensions to the season, and I'd like to respond.

Comments

[percysowner]

Although I understand your not needing Dean to get external consequences, I want someone, anyone who is an accepted good person and an established character to tell Dean what he did was wrong. I do not want Ellen speaking from beyond the grave telling Dean what a special snowflake he is, as she did in The Mentalists. I do not want this to be blown off as a simple "dick move" the way Charlie blew off the fake message in LARP. Cas would be my choice, but I'll settle for a non-dead Linda Tran pointing out that she doesn't CARE that Gad saved Cas and Charlie, he murdered her son because Dean decided to play God. I would take Amelia showing up and reaming out Dean, although fandom thinks so little of her that her defending Sam would probably work to make Dean sympathetic. Kevin or Bobby returning as ghosts, Death paying Dean a visit. Just ONE person telling Dean he was wrong and that no, he isn't the bestest brother in the world

[pocochina]

I want someone, anyone who is an accepted good person and an established character to tell Dean what he did was wrong.

AAAAAAH I WOULD LOVE IT. I'm trying really hard to control expectations but I WOULD LOVE IT. Because yeah, it says a lot that even with something so relatively mild as "dick move" Charlie is one of an exceptionally small number of characters - perhaps the only character - in that she's told Dean he did something wrong and didn't soft-pedal it with a lot of ~~you just don't love yourself enough~~ backdoor non-flaws.

And yeah, the episode leaned so hard on Dean's fear of saying the actual words that I actually started to wonder if there was an eventual come-to-Jesus talk being set up to come from CAS of all people?!? Like, Cas could give him the exact same "if you thought you had to do it why'd you keep it a secret from me?" lecture Dean gave him in S6, and frankly have it be a lot more persuasive. ("Why didn't you involve ME in your heavenly insurrection I WOULD HAVE BEEN SO USEFUL IN THAT SITUATION" lol Dean.) And

[percysowner]

I agree that Linda Tran is not my default person in this because it takes the focus off Sam and puts it on Kevin. I would like her as a secondary back up, because I'm already seeing the devaluation of Kevin as an excuse for Dean's actions. The chorus of "but Gad saved Cas and Charlie so doesn't that balance Kevin out?" just bugs, as does the "maybe Gad will do something good so that we will see that Kevin was a necessary sacrifice" excusors. It's not even the victim blaming, it's the outright defense of the abuser that blows my mind.

(That, or a chipper "well fuck it, I like being alive and having an angel owe me!" WILL NEVER HAPPEN BUT HAHAHAHA.)As a resolution of Sam's abuse it would be great. On a fandom meta level (and on a Dean POV level) it would lead to Dean wasn't wrong because he violated Sam's will, Dean was wrong because Sam has once again let power go to his head. Sam loves being able to smite people just like with the demon blood and poor, sad martyr Dean must stop his angel powered brother who does bad things and

[pocochina]

I agree that Linda Tran is not my default person in this because it takes the focus off Sam and puts it on Kevin. I would like her as a secondary back up, because I'm already seeing the devaluation of Kevin as an excuse for Dean's actions.

Yeah, I would totally like for her to be alive and to get her say, for sure. I just don't want her to be the only voice against the whole thing.

The chorus of "but Gad saved Cas and Charlie so doesn't that balance Kevin out?" just bugsThis does kind of make Cas an even more attractive candidate for Jiminy Cricket. "Yeah I'm alive BUT THIS WAS STILL A BAD IDEA." Though I feel a little bad wishing the burden of *being Dean's conscience* on anyone, even a character I'm significantly less attached to than my bby Cas

[jo1027]

"That's one of the few things I don't have much doubt about, that he'll try to play it that way. But I think he's really overplayed his hand this time? Because now Sam can say (what I am hoping he will eventually learn to say) "well if I can't help myself WHOSE FAULT IS THAT, and if I can help myself, HOW IS IT YOUR BUSINESS, either way I don't trust your judgment more than my own any more." And seriously, Dean losing that hold over Sam is the best possible outcome in terms of Sam's well-being *and* sweet justice in terms of the blow to Dean's self-image."

This would satisfy me on so many levels. I'm hoping this is the way they go with it. I really need Dean to accept responsibility for what he did to Sam rather than trying to blame Sam again.

Do you think Sam would tell Gad to just go ahead and take over because he's so obviously wrong about everything he does and can't stand this life anymore? I've read that Sam is suicidal in some future episodes.

[pocochina]

I really need Dean to accept responsibility for what he did to Sam rather than trying to blame Sam again.

....it could happen! I'm not holding my breath, but it could happen. What I really want is for Sam not to blame Sam again, and not let Dean talk him into blaming himself.

Do you think Sam would tell Gad to just go ahead and take over because he's so obviously wrong about everything he does and can't stand this life anymore? I've read that Sam is suicidal in some future episodes.

I mean, he's still kind of between a rock and a hard place with this. If he evicts Gadreel, that's a potentially self-destructive action, since he's still "duct tape and safety pins inside," Dean's nonchalance notwithstanding. And if he doesn't, as you say, he's running the risk that Gadreel can take him over and destroy his identity. I'm not sure there's anything Sam can do at this point which can't be construed as suicidal behavior. Whether or not he is entirely committed to survival on these compromised terms is...I don't know, I really don't.