I have been amused that several people have mentioned that they think Dean was manipulating Kevin in that scene. They then go on to say he probably is sincere. Since I see Dean as manipulative and I know that being sincere does not mean someone isn't using that sincerity to manipulate I have no problem saying that Dean is actively manipulating Kevin. He does care about Kevin and he needs Kevin as an extra pair of hands and as a prophet. The best manipulation is grounded in true feelings, IMHO. I wonder if the stress about Sam (and let's face it giving control of Sam over to someone else) is making Dean less able to mask his manipulation. He usually is smooth, but this time it seemed less real, more forced and was fairly obviously in response to Kevin wanting to leave. Just like last season when he told Cas that Cas was family when Cas was trying to beat him to death and then as soon as Cas was gone, Dean showed little interest in his well being. Now that Cas is less useful, Dean will invite him into the bunker, but he will also describe Cas as humanish, not human and not even think of finding out if Cas needs help, even when Sam specifically asks is Cas is okay. I can certainly see how the stress of Sam almost dying and trusting Ezekiel really is hard on Dean and makes him more likely to try to hold onto the resources he has.
I don't know how I feel about Sam suddenly feeling happy. I worry that it is a product of Ezekiel deliberately doing things to his mind and his psyche. It may be from good intentions, heal his mind and soul as well as his body. Or it may be for other intentions, make Sam want to remain his vessel because Sam is happier that way. I do hate that Sam is being kept in the dark about the fact there is an angel inside. The longer Sam doesn't know, the more unhappy I will be with Dean. OTOH, Ezekiel's whole, Sam can't know because he could eject me and die is pretty manipulative as well. Right now we only have Zeke's word that it's true that Sam can only be healed with Zeke possessing him. Since we also know that Sam's soul is healing Zeke, he has reason to stay until he is healed and then, well he may be strong enough to fight to retain control of the body and really why look for a new vessel when you already have a perfectly good one? Especially if you can convince yourself that Sam is happier that way. I do love how complicated the emotional dynamics are.
I was really upset with Dean when Tracy told them that Sam had let Lucifer loose. He didn't have the time to give her the full explanation, but he also left Sam with the full responsibility of that. He didn't remind Sam that the angels had allowed 65 seals to be broken with only the last for Sam to break. He didn't remind Sam that Dean himself started the breaking of the seals. He just let Sam hang there feeling guilty about something he has paid for and was not totally responsible for.
I see Dean as manipulative and I know that being sincere does not mean someone isn't using that sincerity to manipulate I have no problem saying that Dean is actively manipulating Kevin. He does care about Kevin and he needs Kevin as an extra pair of hands and as a prophet. The best manipulation is grounded in true feelings, IMHO.
YES. It's true, Dean will put Kevin over anyone but Sam or maybe Cas, depending on how useful Cas is. But it's in part because Kevin has major leverage, and that's a double-edged sword.
Just like last season when he told Cas that Cas was family when Cas was trying to beat him to death and then as soon as Cas was gone, Dean showed little interest in his well being. Now that Cas is less useful, Dean will invite him into the bunker, but he will also describe Cas as humanish, not human and not even think of finding out if Cas needs help, even when Sam specifically asks is Cas is okay.
I am so, so worried about Cas this season. Not because of the other angels. Because of Dean.
I wonder if the stress about Sam (and let's face it giving control of Sam over to someone else) is making Dean less able to mask his manipulation. He usually is smooth, but this time it seemed less real, more forced and was fairly obviously in response to Kevin wanting to leave.
Yes, I love this connection, and I think you are absolutely right. It fits into one of the major things I see about Dean's psychological landscape, is that I don't think he knows how to differentiate between "getting caught out by someone with power over you" and "actually being wrong." He is so invested in being the person in control of other people's perceptions and reality because if he is the one in the position to dish out punishment, then he MUST be right - this is why his sanctimoniousness and his abusiveness, hypocritical as those two things may be, feed off of each other in the way that they do. So I think the Zeke situation is absolutely causing him to be off his game in the way he was this week, but I think it's less compassionate worry about Sam and more that Ezekiel is the one in charge here, and Dean is for the first time in a long time in danger of getting caught and spanked.
I don't know how I feel about Sam suddenly feeling happy. I worry that it is a product of Ezekiel deliberately doing things to his mind and his psyche.
That's what I think, too. I think Ezekiel is filtering out and suppressing Sam's unhappiness and only letting the comparative contentment rise to Sam's consciousness. It's so dangerously subtle.
Since we also know that Sam's soul is healing Zeke, he has reason to stay until he is healed and then, well he may be strong enough to fight to retain control of the body and really why look for a new vessel when you already have a perfectly good one? Especially if you can convince yourself that Sam is happier that way. I do love how complicated the emotional dynamics are.
Yeah, we really have no idea. And some vessels, per Hael in the premiere, some vessels are more valuable than others - what could be better than a vessel that's proven it can hold an archangel?
I was really upset with Dean when Tracy told them that Sam had let Lucifer loose. He didn't have the time to give her the full explanation, but he also left Sam with the full responsibility of that. He didn't remind Sam that the angels had allowed 65 seals to be broken with only the last for Sam to break. He didn't remind Sam that Dean himself started the breaking of the seals. He just let Sam hang there feeling guilty about something he has paid for and was not totally responsible for.
YUP. Everything he can do to keep Sam on the chain.
I don't know how I feel about Sam suddenly feeling happy. I worry that it is a product of Ezekiel deliberately doing things to his mind and his psyche. It may be from good intentions, heal his mind and soul as well as his body. Or it may be for other intentions, make Sam want to remain his vessel because Sam is happier that way. I do hate that Sam is being kept in the dark about the fact there is an angel inside. The longer Sam doesn't know, the more unhappy I will be with Dean. OTOH, Ezekiel's whole, Sam can't know because he could eject me and die is pretty manipulative as well. Right now we only have Zeke's word that it's true that Sam can only be healed with Zeke possessing him. Since we also know that Sam's soul is healing Zeke, he has reason to stay until he is healed and then, well he may be strong enough to fight to retain control of the body and really why look for a new vessel when you already have a perfectly good one? Especially if you can convince yourself that Sam is happier that way. I do love how complicated the emotional dynamics are.
I was really upset with Dean when Tracy told them that Sam had let Lucifer loose. He didn't have the time to give her the full explanation, but he also left Sam with the full responsibility of that. He didn't remind Sam that the angels had allowed 65 seals to be broken with only the last for Sam to break. He didn't remind Sam that Dean himself started the breaking of the seals. He just let Sam hang there feeling guilty about something he has paid for and was not totally responsible for.
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YES. It's true, Dean will put Kevin over anyone but Sam or maybe Cas, depending on how useful Cas is. But it's in part because Kevin has major leverage, and that's a double-edged sword.
Just like last season when he told Cas that Cas was family when Cas was trying to beat him to death and then as soon as Cas was gone, Dean showed little interest in his well being. Now that Cas is less useful, Dean will invite him into the bunker, but he will also describe Cas as humanish, not human and not even think of finding out if Cas needs help, even when Sam specifically asks is Cas is okay.
I am so, so worried about Cas this season. Not because of the other angels. Because of Dean.
I wonder if the stress about Sam (and let's face it giving control of Sam over to someone else) is making Dean less able to mask his manipulation. He usually is smooth, but this time it seemed less real, more forced and was fairly obviously in response to Kevin wanting to leave.
Yes, I love this connection, and I think you are absolutely right. It fits into one of the major things I see about Dean's psychological landscape, is that I don't think he knows how to differentiate between "getting caught out by someone with power over you" and "actually being wrong." He is so invested in being the person in control of other people's perceptions and reality because if he is the one in the position to dish out punishment, then he MUST be right - this is why his sanctimoniousness and his abusiveness, hypocritical as those two things may be, feed off of each other in the way that they do. So I think the Zeke situation is absolutely causing him to be off his game in the way he was this week, but I think it's less compassionate worry about Sam and more that Ezekiel is the one in charge here, and Dean is for the first time in a long time in danger of getting caught and spanked.
I don't know how I feel about Sam suddenly feeling happy. I worry that it is a product of Ezekiel deliberately doing things to his mind and his psyche.
That's what I think, too. I think Ezekiel is filtering out and suppressing Sam's unhappiness and only letting the comparative contentment rise to Sam's consciousness. It's so dangerously subtle.
Since we also know that Sam's soul is healing Zeke, he has reason to stay until he is healed and then, well he may be strong enough to fight to retain control of the body and really why look for a new vessel when you already have a perfectly good one? Especially if you can convince yourself that Sam is happier that way. I do love how complicated the emotional dynamics are.
Yeah, we really have no idea. And some vessels, per Hael in the premiere, some vessels are more valuable than others - what could be better than a vessel that's proven it can hold an archangel?
I was really upset with Dean when Tracy told them that Sam had let Lucifer loose. He didn't have the time to give her the full explanation, but he also left Sam with the full responsibility of that. He didn't remind Sam that the angels had allowed 65 seals to be broken with only the last for Sam to break. He didn't remind Sam that Dean himself started the breaking of the seals. He just let Sam hang there feeling guilty about something he has paid for and was not totally responsible for.
YUP. Everything he can do to keep Sam on the chain.
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