OH MY GOD, ME TOO (3): Return of the Unusual Opinions Amnesty Post

[pocochina]

Recent ~things and ~stuff have convinced me that it's high time for another round of appreciation of the quirky, silly, and not entirely defensible, and in any event it's been about a year, so let's have another Unusual Opinions Amnesty Post"Fandom secrets" will eternally crack me up. Some of them are really moving Post Secret-y type things, and

Comments

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[youcallitwinter]

I...actually think Seeing Red fits in very well with the furthering of a gendered trope that the text has developed throughout, and that is consistent with all of Buffy's lovers; the fact that all of them try to establish the natural patriarchal order that Buffy-verse tries to invert, through a very sexualized attack, the vehemency of the attack based on how much they feel their masculinity is threatened through their relationship with Buffy.

In paralleling narratives, the normative is often established by the male characters through hitting out at the core of the inversion of the aggressive phallic domination- Buffy's sexuality or her femaleness. This attempt to reclaim power remains constant with all her lovers, even though it is never overtly identified, and usually functions at the level of innuendo and subtext. The feeling of impotency of the male subject is countered by their lashing out at feminine desire, wherein the hetero-normative object/subject divide is reinstated.

So Angel(us) mocking Buffy's sexual inexperience, Riley's vampire!prostitutes stint and Spikes's attempted rape, all seem to form a coherent narrative for Buffy for me.

(I have a paper on this, which I've never actually posted on my journal because I have no idea how it will be received, lol.)

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[pocochina]

So Angel(us) mocking Buffy's sexual inexperience, Riley's vampire!prostitutes stint and Spikes's attempted rape, all seem to form a coherent narrative for Buffy for me.

Agreed, and this is a fantastic way of putting it. (I would love to read those thoughts, if you ever do feel like setting up a filter and posting it, but I understand why you wouldn't so I hope this doesn't sound ~pressury.)

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[youcallitwinter]

Definitely not pressurey! I got into LSE on the basis of this paper, lol. I think I shall post it sometime for sure; I've just been ~wary because people feel so strongly about Angel/Buffy and Spike/Buffy.

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[red_satin_doll]

I fully support this project and look forward to it if you ever do!

Really succinct analysis here. I have issues with the presentation and some of the production choices, and of course I hate seeing buffy attacked in that way but it's been there in the story all along; it's congruent with the underlying themes from the beginning. (Reptile Boy, Go Fish, Fear Itself - an attack from demons in a cellar is lensed very similarly to SR.)

[youcallitwinter]

LOL, this is giving me heart, it's always been my ~dirty little secret xD Also, I will definitely post it sometime, I think! So many people hate Seeing Red and I think it's v. interesting so I was all "MUST WRITE ABOUT IT" haha.

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[bellonablack]

I'd love to read this too! XD

(by the way what do you make of Xander and his various reaction to Buffy's dating life?)

What are your Xander feels?

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[youcallitwinter]

Ooh, interesting question, I didn't include Xander because he wasn't Buffy's lover, haha. I actually don't have very strong Xander feelings either way, I like him and I LOVED how The Zeppo lampshaded his role in the Scoobies (and I REALLY used to ship Xander/Willow because I'm such a sucker for bffs, and that is an unpopular opinion all on its own xD), and hate that there was never really any discussion of Faith's attempt to rape him. But his questioning of Buffy's dating life definitely fits within this scenario. Because his relationship with her hasn't been based on him being male per se, I'd say that his reaction is the mildest. Except he does shame her for her sexual decisions, which fits in with the thematics of Spike/Riley/Angel, in so far that his attempt to gain leverage in the relationship, through a moral high-ground, is also based on her sexuality.

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[red_satin_doll]

Re: Xander: I've got notes for a meta I've been mulling over, re: the way Xander polices and shames the three women in his life whom he was "in love with" or had a sexual relationship with: Cordy, Anya, and Buffy. His desire for them = a right to possession or ownership re: their bodies and free will.

Willow is the only one who escapes this, to the best of my knowledge. They have a brief affair in S3 but that's almost a "one off". It's why I have problems with Grave: as much as that scene with DW is important to his arc, his unconditional love for her has NEVER been in doubt. It's Buffy or most especially Anya who he owes those words to, women he has harmed emotionally.

It's why I love Selfless - it completes the Buffy & Xander arc in a way: the Lie is finally brought up and Xander is made aware of the damage he has done to Buffy, and to her relationship with Willow. (that is probably the one long-term harm he has caused her.)

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[ever_neutral]

(POST UR PAPER OMG)

[tigerpetals]

I want to echo pocochina and 12-12-12. If you do decide to post it, I'd love to see it! It makes things make a lot of sense - I mean, it's a real-life phenomenon, lashing out at feminine desire. It's right there, but I don't think I've seen it analyzed in the context of Buffy's relationships.

Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[eveolina]

I think I've had similar thoughts, but I've never been able to articulate them. I would love to read your paper if you do post it.