GoT S3: the cowardly lion
So I am fascinated and so pleased with what Martin, D&D, and Dance are doing with Tywin Lannister. Only, I don't think I've seen my take on him posted elsewhere, which is as good an excuse as any to indulge in scathing hatred, so. Consider yourselves warned/intrigued. Spoilers through aired episodes of GoT; plot twists that haven't happened yet are
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This is so consistent to me I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that it could be an accident. So maybe a POV, thing, but I'd argue that if the show were trying to softpedal Tywin's behavior as being contextually appropriate, it wouldn't have included or frequently reminded us of Tysha.
It definitely chimes, however, with my confusion at his treatment of Tyrion at the end of season 2. A smart man, it seemed to me - and the show did seem to be presenting Tywin as such - would recognize Tyrion's accomplishments (and his potential to become an enemy) no matter how prejudiced he was against Tyrion's disability.
I thought that was quite clear as well, that Tywin was presented as being smart enough to understand that it was in everyone's best interests to develop and utilize Tyrion's talents, and Tywin's refusal to do so was about him being a contemptible shit toward his children.
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Having finished books 2 & 3 less than a month ago, I'd have to disagree there. While his enemies will call Tywin cruel, they (Catelyn or Brynden, can't recall which one) also do mention more than once that going up against Tywin will be difficult because of his strategic prowess. It's mainly mentioned in comparison to Jaime's impatience, but still.
Tywin was presented as being smart enough to understand that it was in everyone's best interests to develop and utilize Tyrion's talents, and Tywin's refusal to do so was about him being a contemptible shit toward his children.
Couldn't agree more. He saw Tyrion's worth and chose to ignore it because he didn't like the idea of giving Tyrion any kind of power.
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On the military side, Tywin is a good organizer, managing to raise and supply large numbers of troops even after defeats (one of the most difficult logistical feats a general can perform) and executing a nearly-flawless conquest of the Riverlands (albeit against little opposition). However, Tywin's record as a field general is more mixed -- in the early stages of the war, he takes Raventree Hall and Harrenhal against little opposition while using Jaime to do the main fighting and Clegane to disrupt the enemy's mobilization, but completely misreads Robb Stark's strategic intention and wins a tactical victory against a smaller army at the Green Fork (using a well-thought out strategy of sacrificing his left in order to provoke an over-extension, which should be noted), suffering a strategic defeat that forces him to retreat to Harrenhal. Thereafter, the Lannisters lost strategic initiative for some time, losing most of their gains in the Riverlands, suffering a disastrous series of defeats in the Westerlands, and hanging on largely due to their enemies being distracted with other quarrels. He even loses the Battle of the Fords to Edmure Tully, who's hardly the greatest commander in Westerosi history. When he does win on the field, as in the case of the Battle of the Blackwater, it's when he decisively outnumbers his opponents.
He's competent, in a by-the-numbers way, but dependent on his super-strength in resources and his willingness to use scorched-earth tactics - not an independent strategist in the way Robb (not exactly Baby Einstein) is.
Couldn't agree more. He saw Tyrion's worth and chose to ignore it because he didn't like the idea of giving Tyrion any kind of power.
Yup. (And actually, very apt in light of that passage above. Tywin gets a lot of credit for Blackwater, but the creative thinking that let the Lannister forces succeed was from Tyrion, not Tywin. And Tywin knows it.)
(sorry about all the edits.)
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Okay. I think you've convinced me now :D
but dependent on his super-strength in resources and his willingness to use scorched-earth tactics
Not to mention all of his "dogs". *shudder*
Everybody gets credit for Blackwater. Except Tyrion. Who discusses it at length throughout a whole book :P
And then Tywin was right to say that Tyrion would be better off not trying to seek approval all the time - but, of course, Tywin's the one who made him that way.
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Well, that, but also, what is his other option? Accomplish things and not want or try to get payback? Or just not contribute anything? Tyrion would be better off if he wasn't in a position where he needs to promote himself, but Tywin's mixing up correlation and causation here.
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He's about beating his enemy, not strategically disarming his enemy.
It's a great bit of casting, that Charles Dance carries the presence and charisma to carry the myth of Tywin's strategic genius on his shoulders.
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Right, Tywin relies on massive wealth, massive numbers, and massive brutality to win the day.
Yes! Even their military strategy is about WE HAVE STUFF, not WE DO STUFF.
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I totally didn't realize Tywin's tendency to overkill (in war; I noticed him being over-the-top at times in person) until you pointed it out, but it's so true.
It's like he's taken the Targaryens' "Fire and Blood" to heart. Maybe he has secret Targ envy?
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