GoT S3: the cowardly lion

[pocochina]

So I am fascinated and so pleased with what Martin, D&D, and Dance are doing with Tywin Lannister. Only, I don't think I've seen my take on him posted elsewhere, which is as good an excuse as any to indulge in scathing hatred, so. Consider yourselves warned/intrigued. Spoilers through aired episodes of GoT; plot twists that haven't happened yet are

Comments

[ever_neutral]

Yeah, the lack of discussion re: Tywin’s treatment of Tyrion is… interesting. I guess because everyone hates Tyrion for various reasons? That, or it doesn’t merit discussion because ~people like Tyrion~ don’t count. ☺ ☺ ☺

That is to say: not only to produce physical heirs, but create an environment conducive to the procreation of future heirs, which means managing not to fuck the heirs-existent up so badly that they seem posed to burn themselves and their offspring up in a blaze of dysfunction. YOU HAD ONE JOB, ASSHOLE!
L O L

"Cersei acts and thinks like someone who was abused her whole life, therefore her first and worst abuser was clearly correct in his evaluation of her" does not sit well with me.
T H A N K Y O U

… And ugh, this post is really making me aware of how uncomfortable I am about fandom’s reactions to both Tyrion and Cersei? I mean, dislike them as people all you want, but it’s not lost on me that amongst all the criticism of their actions there is virtually no discussion of Tywin’s abuse of them. (Jaime is a different matter because he’s an attractive white dude.) Meanwhile, Tywin himself is widely loved for his ~badassery, idk.

You win or you die, and child abusers? Losers.
You have such a way with words, Poco.

[bellonablack]

I kind of thought Tyrion was the fan favorite of the series?

(well he's mine, so maybe I just went around people who liked him too) but ...I don't know if everyone hates Tyrion, though people may chose a more preferred Lannister.

[ever_neutral]

Hmm, well, the Tyrion hate is mostly re: book Tyrion. Show Tyrion is a fan favorite, I think. But the lack of discussion pertains to both, afaik.

[bellonablack]

People hate bookTryion?! >/ That pisses me off, to be honest. (because yes, I love bookTyrion too!) Throws up hands. I don't really understand though I can see the differences in the portrayals and versions of it.

To be honest, I'd have no idea if it was a factor, it could very well be exactly that, though I have seem people appreciate both at once. It is far from common.

[pocochina]

Yeah, I mean, I would like to think it's that it's just so self-evidently bad it doesn't merit as much discussion as some of the more ambiguous stuff in the series, but...*laughs bitterly.* I mostly do believe it's the Trunchbull principle, that it's SO BAD people's brains just don't really absorb it.

I think the Trunchbull principle also explains why fandom is more sympathetic to Jamie wrt their family dynamics, because Jamie didn't get the brunt of his worst behavior. I mean, that environment was still clearly quite damaging in ways that are fantastically well-explored with Jamie? But people are willing to get their heads around the cause, and so the effect makes more sense.

dislike them as people all you want, but it’s not lost on me that amongst all the criticism of their actions there is virtually no discussion of Tywin’s abuse of them.

Right. I mean, if you (general "you") really want to understand them enough to engage with criticism, you will at least acknowledge the roots of the behavior. But instead they just get trashed for what are clearly adaptive survival mechanisms, while the dude who forced them into those survival mechanisms gets admired and lionized.

Like...I know that impulse to distance from abuse is a strong one that can come from a lot of different places, I really really try not to make judgments on this (and we all know how hard that is for me, lol), but come on now.

Meanwhile, Tywin himself is widely loved for his ~badassery, idk.

Yeah, this is what really chaps my ass, that his whole worldview that OF COURSE egregious sadism is his prerogative because he's powerful...translates into his being admired and excused because he's powerful.