in which I hate a thing everyone else loves, NO ONE IS SURPRISED

[pocochina]

I'm coming up on a middle of my Supernatural finale reaction post, and I got sidetracked in squeaking with joy at how the show is deconstructing something I have come to hate with a passion: to wit, the sanctimonious emotional torture porn currently known as a "redemption arc." But it got too long for an episode review, though it's still much

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[obsessive_a101]

*coughs - of course I haven't made a recent post talking about my fascination for "redemption" arcs... not at all*

BUT SO SAY WE ALL to everything you posted here. :3 I mean, it's basically part and parcel to why I hated the "worthy of survival" sort-of theme in BSG, because noooooo?... That's not it at all?

I guess there are different types of redemption arcs. I'm not so much into it for actual, literal religious "redemption" so much as I am for... Hmm... Well, taking Xena as my major example. I love that it's her choice basically to try and do good because seeing all the stuff that's been happening and meeting good people have made her hope for the better even though her childhood and past has been defined by violence and loss. The fact that her redemption lies in that choice, and she is rewarded not divinely (because heck knows, Ares hates it) but in the friendships she forms with other people and the fact that people begin edging closer. She begins to appreciate life and people, and I think it's not so much that she needs to "redeem" herself for the sake of a happily ever after (and you will see how this all goes nuts in later seasons ><" - I watched everything out of order so it's a bit of a jumbled mess of childhood memories but I do remember some major arcs that drove me nuts and confused the heck out of me) so much as she wants to live with other people again? To have that honest to goodness feeling of having improved the world without needing to always turn to violence and killing first? :3 I don't know. *rambling now*

Basically, ALL OF THE STUFF YOU SAID, and THIS especially made me *wibble*:
I believe in trying to treat people with compassion, even people who aren't real, or, failing that, to realistically root for the world to become a safer place and do our best to minimize harm on the way there, which necessitates not being sadistic. I think bad people are the same as good people. I think people are people. I think the best we can do is to strive to be honest with ourselves as to how we can do better. And that applies to all of us.

(Oh, and HI!!! "The Hub". :D tagged: bsg reference is not imagined)

[pocochina]

Xena. <3 And yeah, from the first couple of season there were episodes that made me preemptively kind of wince, because I expected it to go in this direction and I was like "PT! I SPIT ON IT!" but at least from what I've seen she's been a good example of some aspects of the story being used right. (Tropes are not bad they're just tools! I tell myself all the time.) Because yeah, there wasn't that gratuitous feeling to her regret? It came up sometimes, sometimes with Callisto or other external reminders and sometimes as a part of her inner makeup, but I didn't feel like there was this self-loathing served up to be fetishized rather than alleviated. Not all people changing arcs are "redemption arcs" for which I need a better word, in the same way as not all MANPAIN is created equal.

Xena!

[auroramama]

Xena's regret, and her pragmatic approach to going on with her life, are now reminding me of The Prisoner. "Protect Other People," no matter what you may have done in the past or what may happen to you tomorrow. The only thing No 6 knows is that even in the Village, there are many people with fewer resources than he: less knowledge, less training and practice, less strength. Even in a maze there may be something he can do to help. And the alternative is sitting and brooding, which are dangerous hobbies even in less perilous places.

(I remember how outraged I was when Spike threw the other vampire back into the Initiative's installation. Ridiculous, but it just seemed so... amoral. In character, but it startled me.)