my collected wit and wisdom, or something!

[pocochina]

I realized last night that while I've mostly stuck to my designation of Tumblr as being for bookmarking and sassy tagging of graphics while journaling is for thoughts. But sometimes those posts turn into short but substantive discussions, and I'd rather have them here.

one about why I hate the concept and the other about the Dove campaign

"It’s the

Comments

[obsessive_a101]

Oh, most definitely, and it is, it's so easy to slip it into normal everyday situations as well (the last two attempts of the GOP to play for the "women's vote" being most remarkable and interesting for... their particular "choice" of candidates and the remarkable/unremarkable responses they engendered). The status quo in media and etc. for centuries and most of history has been defined by men. (I recently went and read up your rec of Carol Gilligan regarding moral valuations, and gods, even what is defined as "right" has a strong gender-skew... like seriously.) I mean, even and particularly anthropology as a field has had a difficult history - with both gender and race (and all of this of course contributes to why I chose history of science), but yes, the show DOES do a remarkable job of portraying, but dear gods, does anyone ever say an honest, nothing attached thank you to Laura?

Just, I mean, by the end, besides the few members of a family sort-of-chosen, sort-of-tossed-together, everyone she got close to were dead or only knew her in some sort of official capacity - Elosha, Billy, Maya... I just... agonize over this constantly. Her isolation despite being surrounded by people. Bill didn't know how good he had it and then, enrages me at the end by throwing it back to her court, into her face. You're going to die on me, so I will leave everyone else - my son, my pseudo-daughter, my best friend behind and fly away with you. (I fandom-head it away because I refuse to accept that he does that to Lee, because gods, in the end Lee ends up almost as alone as Laura... which... is just freaking sad, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY, and it is plain stupid!!!) *headdesks repeatedly*

Sorry... uhmm... I can't. I have strong feelings today, and DEAR!!! *HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGS* YOU CAN ALWAYS FEELINGSVOMIT TO ME!!! Also, because your feelingsvomit are so admirably coherent and whole. :) But I do believe that my response to reading your review of "A Day in the Life" to be, gods, yes. I completely understand the reasons behind the ISSUES Lee has. I will never deny that they exist for a reason (NAMELY, BILL, YOU REALLY WERE/ARE A HORRIBLE DAD - STOP PRETENDING YOU CAN BE TRUSTED TO NOT BE). Bill's main flaw is that beyond the self-centered-ness that can revolve around Lee, he's definitely selfish. He needs to control the way he views/is-viewed-by people, and by extent, he needs to control all his relationships, and when things move beyond his control - he reacts RASHLY and VIOLENTLY (KBL and "Sine Qua Non"- I'm looking at you guys). It also explains the blatant nepotism at work and the way he tries to "adopt" those closest to him. I make no excuses for him about that. His heart, his ability to love extensively commonly held up as being his greatest characteristic, is also also his greatest flaw, but I can understand that. I won't excuse it, but it's understandable. Love, as much as hate, can be horrible - abusive and harmful and selfish. It's not always that perfect thing people imagine, but gods, he's all about people he "loves" betraying his trust, but is incapable of facing the way he's broken the trust of the people he's supposed to love the most.

Aww... Poor, Lee. *pats and hugs* He has reasons to be emo, even when annoying, he's understandable. I mean, I still want to smack him lots (whenever the inbred defense mechanisms also causes him to lash out and hurt those around him - Laura, Kara... - it's almost like the angels, a cycle within a cycle).

Sorry, for word-vomiting and rambling in response...

ETA: Gods, I just re-read this, and I don't even know what this become. REALLY, SORRY!!! ♥

[pocochina]

Yeah, it's been a long time since I read much Carol Gilligan, and so I really don't know how much I agree, but I think she does a very good job of showing that lens of how good and bad are framed and valued socially, if that makes sense, and so she's been really influential to my philosophical thinking from that perspective. I've gone with the characterization of Laura as being "morally ambiguous" and, you know, I'm not offended by it? but I don't think it's necessarily even that. I think she has a very clear moral code, and it's not a bad one, you know? I don't think she's so much ambiguous as operating in a much starker framework.

Lee ends up almost as alone as Laura... which... is just freaking sad, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY

HURTFUL. Particularly since I think it comes so close, you know? Lee has this whole journey of learning how to validate and value his own existence, rather than constantly trying to live up to someone else's highest benchmark (and self-sabotaging by attaching himself to people with unmeetable expectations), but I don't think that being ABLE to stand on your own means you HAVE TO end up abandoned and alone, you know? "Hey, you know how you were afraid the people you love don't love you back? YOU'RE RIGHT!" If it's supposed to be tragic it's amazing, but...I don't think it is?

BUT OMG I just have so much sympathy for him about Bill. That temper, the expectations of Lee's being able to meet those wildly shifting goalposts, the sporadic attempts to convince Lee that things weren't really that bad which just undermines Lee's perspective...it does such a number on Lee. I don't know which came first with him, whether I started feeling protective and then bonded, or if he made me like him and then I got extra-protective. But regardless, it still breaks my heart.

whenever the inbred defense mechanisms also causes him to lash out and hurt those around him - Laura, Kara... - it's almost like the angels, a cycle within a cycle

Oh, he totally does. Especially with Laura? Because she does give him clear expectations, and support and approval as a reward for meeting them. She never abandons or betrays him. Lee just CANNOT DEAL WITH THAT even though it is the thing he wants and needs the most. And I think that, more than Cain, was why he dropped away from her in S2.5.

[obsessive_a101]

LOL - I wouldn't know because I haven't read ANY Carol Gilligan, but I saw your mentions in a few places, and so I pulled up a few articles to get a better gist of the manner of discussion (and GODS, I love meta and fandom for so many reasons). :) It was just interesting because I read the introduction and primary arguments and it reminded me of when we were exploring anthropological writings from within the medical field from the colonial period forward, and it was interesting to see shifts in the manner in which topics were written - regarding gender and race especially. Just, gender divisions in academia is really interesting in general. (I had a roommate who was super involved with mathematics - both academically and extracurricularly - and the way the field is still such a guy's club.)

...but I don't think that being ABLE to stand on your own means you HAVE TO end up abandoned and alone, you know? "Hey, you know how you were afraid the people you love don't love you back? YOU'RE RIGHT!" If it's supposed to be tragic it's amazing, but...I don't think it is?

Exactly? I felt like the off-tone problem with "Daybreak" especially was that it was so clearly meant to be a happy ending, and that's how they colored over it, but it really is a TRAGEDY. Nvm even the anthropological mess that is Hera=mitochondrial eve, but just... these people went through so much together, survived so much, and now... they're going into the wilds as separate groups hoping to survive the calamities that abound and all those diseases that their immune systems haven't encountered before? I mean, sure, it's more fertile than NC, but still! And Lee... :( I wasn't quite aware of his overall arc until you wrote it out (I felt bad for him of course, being dumped by the people closest to him at the last moment basically - just the sight of him standing in a field staring into the vast distances), but now, having read your wonderful meta, it's just heartbreaking. And it sucks.

And yeah, re: Bill. I'm generally okay with him, I think... possibly, but I feel deeply for all the characters that interact with him. To a certain extent, his flaws and his temper (and drinking) does terrify me as well. He lashes out at the most inconvenient times and at other people's most vulnerable moments, and just... it's like a bull - and instead of a china shop - it's someone's heart and psyche. ><" And I mean, seriously, poor Lee since the one parent who was even slightly more dependable, turned out not so much, and his father instead of getting the picture and trying to pick up the pieces, STOPS HIM FROM SAYING more as if HE'S the one being hurt. ><" Yeah, "A Day in the Life" is just filled with "WTFRAK ARE YOU DOING, BILL?!?" moments. :3 And, I've had those moments when I don't know what people expect of me, and it's always so confusing, and at one point or another, you just freeze - you stop. You try, but in the end you don't expect anything good to pop up. It's been a while, but I used to have nightmares when I was younger about those issues. ><"

*HUGS LAURA TIGHT AND OFFERS HER UNENDING GRATITUDE AND LOVE FOR HER AWESOMENESS DESPITE NOT BEING A CHARACTER ON THE SHOW*