my collected wit and wisdom, or something!

[pocochina]

I realized last night that while I've mostly stuck to my designation of Tumblr as being for bookmarking and sassy tagging of graphics while journaling is for thoughts. But sometimes those posts turn into short but substantive discussions, and I'd rather have them here.

one about why I hate the concept and the other about the Dove campaign

"It’s the

Comments

[obsessive_a101]

As you probably already know (see what I mean by brain switching out words on me randomly? ><" I hope this was not essentially a right frontal cortex thing...), a YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS on all your Gaius and Gaius/Laura interaction thoughts. :)

Also, I LOVE your Lucy thoughts. LOL - which makes me love Gabriel all the more because he's one of the angels that actively went - FRAK all this S*IT. I'm DONE with all of your. I'm off to go have fun with the mortals now. Bye-bye. Thinking about "Hammer of the Gods" the confrontation between him and Lucy still makes me want to cry. Not in the least because Mark Pellegrino acted the HECK out of that scene and managed to bring out all those inner conflicts between love and hatred in Lucy's/his face. :(

ETA: Just realizing, as I am watching "The Captain's Hand" that I am now officially more pissed off at Bill Adama than ever before... because this entire thing? THIS ENTIRE FREAKING THING... regarding abortion would have NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE if he hadn't brought it up - challenging Cottle, trying to guilt trip the girl, and then trying to talk Laura out of her stance. Seriously though. I mean my own views on abortion having never been settled (because it's complicated), but gods. Cottle could have quietly handled it as he always had, and just... gods I am so PISSED at the moment. And Laura... she's crying... and my heart is breaking... ><"

[pocochina]

re: archangels

I love Gabriel, man. I think he's fascinating because he kind of...he shows Lucifer's best qualities in how he deals with their family, and then shows the worst qualities of both Lucifer and Michael in how he deals with humans. You know? He could see through the bullshit angel dysfunction and step outside of it like Luci, but he doesn't feel that same aggressive urge. He just bails, and stays out until he feels like there's something he can do about it all. (tbh, I think Sam has as much in common with Gabriel as Lucifer.) And I really admire anyone who gets out of such a toxic environment. But then when he is loose among humans, he shows all of Lucifer's inventive sadism and Michael's self-righteous sanctimoniousness in convincing himself he's killing jerks who deserve it. Cycle of abuse; goes around and around.

TCH:

WOOO, YES! Cottle sucks! No, you don't get nice guy points for being gruff and blunt and rude on top of your paternalistic bullshit! He should've just SAID "she needs medical care she couldn't get on her ship and doctor-patient confidentiality means I can't say more." Bill would've backed off, because he doesn't tend to pick fights with the few people he has to admit he respects. But noooo, he gets to make decisions about women's bodies and pat himself on the back for it.

[obsessive_a101]

LOL- I love how your icons serve as much as replies as the rest of the comment. :)

That said, yeah, that's a really good point about Gabriel, and it's also further proof that the angels just really didn't care at all... until they started changing... with Anna, with Castiel... *huggles my angels*

Re: BSG, yep, this has been an interesting rewatch so far in that I am being so much more critical. I'm not sure how much of it comes from reading so much meta and participating with fandom and how much of it comes from the fact that I first watched all these episodes in a rush while studying for my finals in the middle of freshman year, and this now is from after having been roughed it in critical thinking and analysis for the next three-and a half years. Particularly heavy on the latter when I decided to go non-traditional major as a pre-med. And don't even get me started on Cottle's breach on doctor-patient confidentiality. I just... caaaaaaaan't. There are reasons why there are entire fields of people working in this area of medicine. ><" I love the Doc, but yeah, nopenopenope.

At least I am now on one of my other favorite eps EVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER "Downloaded"!!! Also, I feel as if I should really bring this up... on the continuing trend where Bill pisses me off more on re-watch than before. Understandable, but still... ><" I do love how he conveniently forgets his involvement in this discussion about what to do with Hera prior to Sharon "becoming his daughter" during NC arc to being pissed at Laura in EOJ? Or maybe, it's that she never told him about her decision to hide the child? But uhmm... I just... can't. ><" Oh, Bill. I love you, but I want to slap you repeatedly. :3

Oh, D'Anna... you so interesting. Trying to trap Boomer and Caprica in their "human-ness". LOL

[pocochina]

I'm really interested in how your thoughts on the show are evolving. IA that it's much easier to be appropriately skeptical the second time around when you're not white-knuckling it as to whether they're going to die in the next five minutes, even for people who aren't real.

I do love how he conveniently forgets his involvement in this discussion about what to do with Hera prior to Sharon "becoming his daughter" during NC arc to being pissed at Laura in EOJ? Or maybe, it's that she never told him about her decision to hide the child?

Yeah. The ire at Laura strikes me very much as being more about SHE made the call, rather than what call she made. Which would be cute, except she's the president and IT'S HER JOB to make certain calls. And ugh, notice that Cottle was perfectly capable of keeping state secrets when someone gave him an order. It's just when some poor sick girl who can't do anything needs five goddamn minutes of privacy he comes over all Chatty Cathy.

[obsessive_a101]

LOL - Basically. But simultaneously, I am just so much more emotional about everything that's happening. I'm up to LDYB now, and I just... I can't handle how she actually loses this election. Like, I am just *crying* because she may have gotten the ending she wanted ("so much life"), but DARN IT she deserved better. *sobs* (Yes, in my completely biased opinion. Technically, they ALL deserved better, and their circumstances just suck all around, but gods. She's always so lonely and constantly facing the worse people have to offer even when she's trying her best, taking all the hits to shield them. I mean, it's what I love about her, but it hurts. *still crying* Even from the people she's closest to, it's like, she gets no breaks. I don't expect things to be fair, not when twelve worlds were wiped out... but still... Sorry, I'm overwhelmed with love and grief simultaneously at the moment. I MISS HER... SO MUCH!)

She does the hard thing, she says the hard things, and yes, Tory is right that those are probably not the things the people want to hear, but she got them that far didn't she? She obviously has the judgment skills, and eventually, the Cylons find them, arguably because of that frakking nuke that Baltar (god/god bless him, I love him as a character, but there are more than a few times when I wish I could reach through the screen and shake him, and I am not a person for violent urges) gave Gina on a petty whim.

And yeah, I repeat, Bill, "WHY?!?"

[pocochina]

THOSE INGRATES! I actually thought the election rang so true with a lot of issues? Like how women are graciously ~permitted to assume positions of power when things are in shambles but people just find it so much easier to tolerate a comfortable-seeming man than a strong-willed woman. And Laura's never had to campaign - as hard a worker as she was and is, she doesn't know how to sell herself and get people to recognize her, which also strikes me as being very true to life in how women aren't supposed to show ambition or self-interest.

GENDER-NEUTRAL SOCIETY MY ASS. But it inadvertently NAILED so many gender dynamics that I forgive it a ton.

Can I shift gears and feelingsvomit at you about A Day in the Life and how Lee is MY BABY and I don't know how much this episode was meant to be sympathetic to Bill? But it just strikes me as Why Lee Adama Is The ~Way He Is. I just....he wants so badly to trust his father and tell the truth, and he's just SO USED to that environment of people who are unstable and explosive, and Bill just makes him dance and dance and gives him just enough room to think it'll really be okay this time and instead it gets turned right back around on him as soon as he tips his hand a little. OF COURSE HE IS INCAPABLE OF READING AND TRUSTING PEOPLE And he lashes back with that mean, cutting, cold remark about "she never loved you" because all this does is reinforce how he cannot lose control or it will be turned right against him. TOO REAL, SHOW, GO BACK TO THE KILLER MUTANT SPACE ROBOT ZOMBIES.

[obsessive_a101]

Oh, most definitely, and it is, it's so easy to slip it into normal everyday situations as well (the last two attempts of the GOP to play for the "women's vote" being most remarkable and interesting for... their particular "choice" of candidates and the remarkable/unremarkable responses they engendered). The status quo in media and etc. for centuries and most of history has been defined by men. (I recently went and read up your rec of Carol Gilligan regarding moral valuations, and gods, even what is defined as "right" has a strong gender-skew... like seriously.) I mean, even and particularly anthropology as a field has had a difficult history - with both gender and race (and all of this of course contributes to why I chose history of science), but yes, the show DOES do a remarkable job of portraying, but dear gods, does anyone ever say an honest, nothing attached thank you to Laura?

Just, I mean, by the end, besides the few members of a family sort-of-chosen, sort-of-tossed-together, everyone she got close to were dead or only knew her in some sort of official capacity - Elosha, Billy, Maya... I just... agonize over this constantly. Her isolation despite being surrounded by people. Bill didn't know how good he had it and then, enrages me at the end by throwing it back to her court, into her face. You're going to die on me, so I will leave everyone else - my son, my pseudo-daughter, my best friend behind and fly away with you. (I fandom-head it away because I refuse to accept that he does that to Lee, because gods, in the end Lee ends up almost as alone as Laura... which... is just freaking sad, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY, and it is plain stupid!!!) *headdesks repeatedly*

Sorry... uhmm... I can't. I have strong feelings today, and DEAR!!! *HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGS* YOU CAN ALWAYS FEELINGSVOMIT TO ME!!! Also, because your feelingsvomit are so admirably coherent and whole. :) But I do believe that my response to reading your review of "A Day in the Life" to be, gods, yes. I completely understand the reasons behind the ISSUES Lee has. I will never deny that they exist for a reason (NAMELY, BILL, YOU REALLY WERE/ARE A HORRIBLE DAD - STOP PRETENDING YOU CAN BE TRUSTED TO NOT BE). Bill's main flaw is that beyond the self-centered-ness that can revolve around Lee, he's definitely selfish. He needs to control the way he views/is-viewed-by people, and by extent, he needs to control all his relationships, and when things move beyond his control - he reacts RASHLY and VIOLENTLY (KBL and "Sine Qua Non"- I'm looking at you guys). It also explains the blatant nepotism at work and the way he tries to "adopt" those closest to him. I make no excuses for him about that. His heart, his ability to love extensively commonly held up as being his greatest characteristic, is also also his greatest flaw, but I can understand that. I won't excuse it, but it's understandable. Love, as much as hate, can be horrible - abusive and harmful and selfish. It's not always that perfect thing people imagine, but gods, he's all about people he "loves" betraying his trust, but is incapable of facing the way he's broken the trust of the people he's supposed to love the most.

Aww... Poor, Lee. *pats and hugs* He has reasons to be emo, even when annoying, he's understandable. I mean, I still want to smack him lots (whenever the inbred defense mechanisms also causes him to lash out and hurt those around him - Laura, Kara... - it's almost like the angels, a cycle within a cycle).

Sorry, for word-vomiting and rambling in response...

ETA: Gods, I just re-read this, and I don't even know what this become. REALLY, SORRY!!! ♥

[pocochina]

Yeah, it's been a long time since I read much Carol Gilligan, and so I really don't know how much I agree, but I think she does a very good job of showing that lens of how good and bad are framed and valued socially, if that makes sense, and so she's been really influential to my philosophical thinking from that perspective. I've gone with the characterization of Laura as being "morally ambiguous" and, you know, I'm not offended by it? but I don't think it's necessarily even that. I think she has a very clear moral code, and it's not a bad one, you know? I don't think she's so much ambiguous as operating in a much starker framework.

Lee ends up almost as alone as Laura... which... is just freaking sad, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY

HURTFUL. Particularly since I think it comes so close, you know? Lee has this whole journey of learning how to validate and value his own existence, rather than constantly trying to live up to someone else's highest benchmark (and self-sabotaging by attaching himself to people with unmeetable expectations), but I don't think that being ABLE to stand on your own means you HAVE TO end up abandoned and alone, you know? "Hey, you know how you were afraid the people you love don't love you back? YOU'RE RIGHT!" If it's supposed to be tragic it's amazing, but...I don't think it is?

BUT OMG I just have so much sympathy for him about Bill. That temper, the expectations of Lee's being able to meet those wildly shifting goalposts, the sporadic attempts to convince Lee that things weren't really that bad which just undermines Lee's perspective...it does such a number on Lee. I don't know which came first with him, whether I started feeling protective and then bonded, or if he made me like him and then I got extra-protective. But regardless, it still breaks my heart.

whenever the inbred defense mechanisms also causes him to lash out and hurt those around him - Laura, Kara... - it's almost like the angels, a cycle within a cycle

Oh, he totally does. Especially with Laura? Because she does give him clear expectations, and support and approval as a reward for meeting them. She never abandons or betrays him. Lee just CANNOT DEAL WITH THAT even though it is the thing he wants and needs the most. And I think that, more than Cain, was why he dropped away from her in S2.5.

[obsessive_a101]

LOL - I wouldn't know because I haven't read ANY Carol Gilligan, but I saw your mentions in a few places, and so I pulled up a few articles to get a better gist of the manner of discussion (and GODS, I love meta and fandom for so many reasons). :) It was just interesting because I read the introduction and primary arguments and it reminded me of when we were exploring anthropological writings from within the medical field from the colonial period forward, and it was interesting to see shifts in the manner in which topics were written - regarding gender and race especially. Just, gender divisions in academia is really interesting in general. (I had a roommate who was super involved with mathematics - both academically and extracurricularly - and the way the field is still such a guy's club.)

...but I don't think that being ABLE to stand on your own means you HAVE TO end up abandoned and alone, you know? "Hey, you know how you were afraid the people you love don't love you back? YOU'RE RIGHT!" If it's supposed to be tragic it's amazing, but...I don't think it is?

Exactly? I felt like the off-tone problem with "Daybreak" especially was that it was so clearly meant to be a happy ending, and that's how they colored over it, but it really is a TRAGEDY. Nvm even the anthropological mess that is Hera=mitochondrial eve, but just... these people went through so much together, survived so much, and now... they're going into the wilds as separate groups hoping to survive the calamities that abound and all those diseases that their immune systems haven't encountered before? I mean, sure, it's more fertile than NC, but still! And Lee... :( I wasn't quite aware of his overall arc until you wrote it out (I felt bad for him of course, being dumped by the people closest to him at the last moment basically - just the sight of him standing in a field staring into the vast distances), but now, having read your wonderful meta, it's just heartbreaking. And it sucks.

And yeah, re: Bill. I'm generally okay with him, I think... possibly, but I feel deeply for all the characters that interact with him. To a certain extent, his flaws and his temper (and drinking) does terrify me as well. He lashes out at the most inconvenient times and at other people's most vulnerable moments, and just... it's like a bull - and instead of a china shop - it's someone's heart and psyche. ><" And I mean, seriously, poor Lee since the one parent who was even slightly more dependable, turned out not so much, and his father instead of getting the picture and trying to pick up the pieces, STOPS HIM FROM SAYING more as if HE'S the one being hurt. ><" Yeah, "A Day in the Life" is just filled with "WTFRAK ARE YOU DOING, BILL?!?" moments. :3 And, I've had those moments when I don't know what people expect of me, and it's always so confusing, and at one point or another, you just freeze - you stop. You try, but in the end you don't expect anything good to pop up. It's been a while, but I used to have nightmares when I was younger about those issues. ><"

*HUGS LAURA TIGHT AND OFFERS HER UNENDING GRATITUDE AND LOVE FOR HER AWESOMENESS DESPITE NOT BEING A CHARACTER ON THE SHOW*