the MANLIEST PAIN OF ALL

[pocochina]

So, we are all up to speed on thingswithwings’ phenomenal Man Pain vid and post? Well worth a watch/read but be warned of spoilers for pretty much everything ever.

It’s one of those wonderfully thought-provoking dark humor/righteous anger pieces, and it crystallized a whole set of my reactions to Man Pain itself, and other peoples’ reactions to

Comments

[pocochina]

I think I once saw someone complaining about what a "poor little rich boy" Logan Echolls (and others of his type) is, and I think the implication there is that the character's privilege (being white, upper-class, etc.) negates the very real physical and emotional abuse he was suffering.

Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of legit gripes you can have with the portrayal of abuse in popular culture. But to advertise having skated right past it like that....that's a hell of a thing for people to be so desensitized to. And couching it in social justice rhetoric is appalling. Not having been abused is also privilege at play in that kind of discussion. (Which sounds very SO'S YOUR FACE, I know, but really, though.)

And that ideal of masculinity is what leads the latter characters to act out various sorts of gender performance? But that gender performance is never portrayed by the show as being correct.

I never know if it's the fatalist DON'T GET ABOVE YOURSELF attitude, or if it's positive support for diverse gender performance. (Well, I do actually think Bill's gripe with Lee is really about gender performance - basically the only thing Lee has failed at by the miniseries is sufficiently swinging his dick around, but doing that just gets him slapped back into place for the sake of daddy's supremacy, so - and I think the narrative excuses that. Generally, though, I agree.)

I mean, as problematic as shows like "Chuck" can be, I'm still glad those types of male protagonists--the type who *don't* fulfil that hypermasculine ideal--can still be portrayed as significant and heroic

This is a great point. Because the show is Chuck! It is all about Chuck! And he emphatically does not need to be this kind of guy. There really isn't even one - Casey and Awesome are hypermasculine men, surely, but they don't have Man Pain about their power, and are generally deflated just as ruthlessly as the nerds are. And yeah, it does make the show stronger not to be able to rely on traditional masculinity or Man Pain. Other issues, including gender issues, for sure, but this is something the show has fairly consistent perspective on.

yeah. This aggravation really takes away from the shows for me, so I'm glad it's not an issue for you? It's something I could stand to see less of generally, that's for sure. I think you put it really well - I like the shows in spite of this manipulation, rather than because of it.

[ever_neutral]

But to advertise having skated right past it like that....that's a hell of a thing for people to be so desensitized to. And couching it in social justice rhetoric is appalling. Not having been abused is also privilege at play in that kind of discussion.

THANK YOU. fuck.

Well, I do actually think Bill's gripe with Lee is really about gender performance - basically the only thing Lee has failed at by the miniseries is sufficiently swinging his dick around, but doing that just gets him slapped back into place for the sake of daddy's supremacy, so - and I think the narrative excuses that.

Yep. Pretty much. It is actually astonishing how often Papadama behaves in an abusive fashion with his kids (I include Kara there) and the narrative... invites us to sympathize with him. Because Lee and Kara are never able to not forgive him (because they believe they deserve the cut-downs), therefore we should, too. And now I feel complicit in the cycle of abuse.

This aggravation really takes away from the shows for me, so I'm glad it's not an issue for you?

I wouldn't... say it's not an issue so much. I mean, it's why I prefer the darker, subversive reading of Angel? I would rather believe that the narrative ISN'T telling us to support Angel's decisions. I also think I'd find it a lot easier to sympathize with Bill and Don if the narrative poked holes through them more often. (S4 of MM was the peak of Don-sympathy for me, because it actually portrayed as truly PATHETIC.)

[pocochina]

It is actually astonishing how often Papadama behaves in an abusive fashion with his kids (I include Kara there) and the narrative... invites us to sympathize with him. Because Lee and Kara are never able to not forgive him (because they believe they deserve the cut-downs), therefore we should, too.

yeah. And I always get why they excuse him - they have to at least go through the motions of being in the family to keep it all together; Lee especially needs a bit to go on to keep up some semblance of self-deception - but it's a fine line between showing them go along with it and encouraging viewers to do so. And that's fine when it's KILLER SPACE ROBOT ZOMBIES, but when it's something so real and common, I do think there's a greater responsibility to be careful.

And now I feel complicit in the cycle of abuse.

mmmm. I think his interpersonal awfulness was a potentially interesting avenue the show at least kept open for longer than most narratives would, maybe even up until ADitL (certainly the Point of No Return as far as this particular story thread), so when it was shut down for MORE MAN PAIN! FEEEEEEEEEED MEEEEEEEEEEEE! it was disappointing.

(S4 of MM was the peak of Don-sympathy for me, because it actually portrayed as truly PATHETIC.)

ha, yes. And what I really loved about it was - no, he is not any different than he has always been, a drunk womanizer clinging to a paper-thin facade. But the people around him are growing past that society and wanting more, even Betty and Lucky Strike, and he can't just loom over them and bully them into treating him as a Titan Among Men anymore.