nothing even resembling an organized post. just contrarianism.

[pocochina]

The Wessay may get finished some day after all. I don't know what possessed me to re-watch AtS S3, but I went for it and am now sucked into the first few episodes of S4 but S3 is pretty brilliant too. Obviously my huge pro-Wes bias is below! locked because it got a little acerbic and ranty, so, fair warning.

Comments

[ever_neutral]

HMMMMMMMM. Haha, see, ITA with your Wes-sympathy, but weirdly enough, I do hold Wes responsible for cutting the others off? I think, like local_max said, the problem with Wesley (and Willow) is that they're extraordinarily smart people, and used to almost always being RIGHT, that there is a bit of tunnel vision going on (for lack of a better phrase). Wes is so focused on achieving the goal, and he thinks that nobody will be able to help him, because he thinks... idk, that he's the only one 'tainted' enough to do what needs to be done? On one level I find that very admirable, because he's not prioritizing his personal happiness and relationships (like Fred and Gunn undoubtedly do) above what he believes is the right thing. But on the other hand, completely sacrificing your personal relationships - choosing to cut his friends out of the decision in case he couldn't trust them - doesn't seem like the wisest solution, either. To Fred and Gunn, the "betrayal" probably comes from what they deem as a lack of respect from Wesley. It probably fuels Gunn's unwillingness to listen to Wesley's side afterwards, because the way he sees it, Wes has already "cut him off", so why should he make the effort?

haha, idk. I am trying to ~approach it from the other POV, since it is not my natural one. You know how it is.

What we're watching here is an emotional collapse, where Wesley's carefully-built facades have all dissolved in the misery and self-loathing within, and that's an ugly and scary thing to be sure, but contextualizing it with the rest of the Angelverse, hardly damning.

Indeed. Though, I think it's necessary for Wesley's arc. Especially with Gunn, there is a good!Gunn/bad!Wesley dichotomy established, and it's necessary for Wes to revisit being the ~black sheep/disappointment in order to... confront his demons? IDK. He has a complicated character arc. But it's admirable that even when all his worst fears seemed to be confirmed (re: being rejected by his surrogate family), he did not collapse.

[pocochina]

Yeah. I think there's a big element of for-their-own-good mixed in there as well - right or wrong, he's not going to drag them down with him - and he really does think he has to be a big champ-ass loner about it (because, what else has he ever experienced himself as?).

But given what he knew at the time, there were a lot of potential downsides to getting them involved - if they all left, they'd be easier to find; if they knew and stayed, Angel might do something insanely violent; if they stopped him and the prophecy was true or even if it wasn't....

yeah, my mind works way too much like his.

because he thinks... idk, that he's the only one 'tainted' enough to do what needs to be done?

oh, this, so much.

it's necessary for Wesley's arc. Especially with Gunn, there is a good!Gunn/bad!Wesley dichotomy established, and it's necessary for Wes to revisit being the ~black sheep/disappointment in order to... confront his demons?

totally true! I just forgot how heavy-handed it was.

it's admirable that even when all his worst fears seemed to be confirmed (re: being rejected by his surrogate family), he did not collapse.

YES! At his absolute worst, Wes was still working to do good, even if using awful means to do so. That's who he is.