Most meaningful redemption story in the Buffyverse! Although a part of me is a little resentful on Faith's behalf that she had to spend three years as a young woman behind bars while characters who did far worse never had to pay that kind of penance like Angel, Spike, Anya or Willow*. It was only in Faith's story that the ultimately sensible idea that the criminals maybe shouldn't be in charge of their penance plan
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I completely love that moment where Faith breaks out because it's just so easy for her, so you know it's been a conscious choice this whole time. It's the staying there that showed she would be able to come out and be okay.
In fairness, I do think Spike and Willow did something similar in trying to find a way to make themselves less dangerous, which is the important thing to me. Faith had to pull herself out of that spiral and stop, ergo, prison; Willow had to learn the ethical boundaries of magic, ergo, coven; Spike had to feel right and wrong rather than seeing it, ergo, soul. Different, but all admirable.
Angel and Anya are more problematic for me, as much as Anya is one of my favorites, because they don't choose the things that constrain them, I completely agree there.
Angel and Anya are more problematic for me, as much as Anya is one of my favorites, because they don't choose the things that constrain them, I completely agree there.
Well, Anya sort of does in Selfless, doesn't she? She chooses to give up her powers and become human - or rather, she chooses to die to undo her sins, and has her powers stripped and her friend killed instead.
I find Angel's redemption arc to be especially poignant, because with all of the other characters who are redeemed - Faith, Spike, Anya, Willow - you get a sense of a deeply flawed but fundamentally good person underneath, someone who regrets their mistakes and is more or less willing to die to set things right. And when they realize they don't have to die to set things right - that they can live, and be good, and do good - they emerge these incredibly strong and centered and heroic people.
I don't think Angel can ever reach that level, because I don't think he is a fundamentally good person - or a fundamentally strong person, at least. He can't be strong or
( ... )
That's true about Anya! I completely agree, too; it's about going on with their stories and taking what they were using against people and using it for good. That's the best thing about BtVS, honestly, that life goes on after the big stuff.
I have a really difficult time with that "intervention" in Consequences because it strikes me as far more tailored to whale away on this particular insecurity of Faith's rather than actually look at what was going on with her. We are a lot alike, Faith, BECAUSE YOU TOO SLAUGHTERED HALF OF EUROPE. nope. thanks for playing. He does help her in LA, I think, but I'm not wild about this arc on BtVS.
I think Faith always cares about and identifies with Angel because she believes what he tells her, but I think that's very sad and not a little bit disturbing, given the Dru parallels.
I think because I'm such a fierce Buffy stan because of the over-identification due to the depression issue that Faith often gets overlooked in my mind. She's the kind of badass character I would expect myself to love, and yet I feel like I ignore her in favor of the characters I obsess over. This was a good wake up call, because I need to appreciate Faith.
I love them both but for very different reasons. BUFFY STANNING IS A+ OBVIOUSLY but adding a little more joy in Faith is a little more joy in the show (both shows!) so I am glad to be of service. :)
Soooo agreed on the Angel intervention. WE ARE SO ALIKE, BECAUSE MY NATURE IS FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL, YOU KNOW, BUT I GOT OVER MY CENTURIES OF SLAUGHTER! EVEN THOUGH I WILL ALWAYS BE A MONSTER! LIKE YOU!
No, fail, please stop getting your issues all over my girl.
Love the Catholic connection. That hadn't ever occurred to me, in those terms anyway, and I really like it.
Faith straddles the line between BtVS, of the unwavering secular humanism, and AtS, with its resurrections and miracle births and Judas Iscariots.
So true. I love it. And it's part of why her redemption works so well, I think: I'd like to make a confession and her supernatural self and all the legal system's flaws, all that Angel stuff, but she is punished like a human. And this very secular punishment becomes a vigil/penance.
And then she smashes her way out, so easy, to come and save the world with her Watcher and I die of glee.
FAITH IS SO GREAT. She and Wes as partners-in-world-saveage are among my favorite parts of AtS as a whole.
I've never been wild about the projection in Consequences, obviously, but I didn't figure out why it made my skin crawl quite the way it did until putting together the Catholicism section of this post, really.
Mmm. I like that because I can see Wes is interesting intellectually, but he doesn't grab me viscerally the way Faith or Giles (or or or) does. When the two of them are together, all their history around, and saving the world together, suddenly I TOTALLY LOVE HIM.
And I mean, I am a Buffy Summers stan, but I WAS ACTUALLY A FAITH LEHANE STAN FIRST? And because those two are sort of put in opposition to each other, I always feel weird about being in this position where both girls make my heart hurt.
This:
It is a very explicit fear that she is intrinsically dirty, which existed before anything she ever did wrong.
YES. YES. THANK YOU. YOU GET IT. I WISH MORE PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD. But, you know, I guess it's kind of a good thing that most people don't understand, because... yeah.
That same sense of dirtiness, of experiencing oneself as a contaminant, oozes off Wesley - it’s why they clash when they meet from behind their respective facades, and a huge part of why they work so beautifully together once they’ve had to face themselves
These 30 days are ending up being so much fun because they're prompting me to think through why I like characters. Not that YOU NEED A REASON or anything, but it's kind of a fun challenge. I always liked Faith, but hadn't put much thought into her until fairly recently.
I feel like there's a lot in Faith (and Wes for that matter, because they're a matched set and that's that) which is very visceral and you just see or don't emotionally. I don't know how not to see it, but I doubt I could explain it to someone who doesn't, you know? BUT WE GET IT.
because those two are sort of put in opposition to each otherI've always felt like the conflict makes the bonding at the end that much more poignant. That's one of my favorite things about those last few episodes is Faith is part of the team and they're really found some peace with each other, because they've finally found some peace with themselves
( ... )
I feel like there's a lot in Faith (and Wes for that matter, because they're a matched set and that's that) which is very visceral and you just see or don't emotionally.
Yes. IDK, it actually hurts more than with other characters, I think. When I see people bashing, say, Buffy or Spike, I'll feel anything from annoyance to indifference. I can't really be rational with Faith, or Wes. I just walk away feeling shitty. It's crazy. Waaaay too much investment in fictional characters.
because that's almost exactly the wording he used to defend her when Angel was ready to break her in half in Five by Five: she's not a demon, Angel, she's a sick, sick girl!
Oh, man, yes. I completely forgot about that, but it's so right. Then comes the torturing and the venom-spewing, and then fast forward a couple years and he's right there. Ugh, their construction is perfect.
Faith and Wesley feel most like Buffy and Spike to me... their stories just make it perfect.
omg, yes, the over-investment. I mean, in some ways it's over-identification for me (especially with Wes, as you know). But because so much of what I've seen people hate on about them comes from one kind or another of abuse, it can feel like victim-blaming too, for which I will not pretend to have an iota of patience.
That's really why I don't see the Wesley meta project ever being finished...to me he's just so clearly this guy who loves the world a little more than he hates himself, so he's trying like all hell to help and not take his damage out on anyone. I'm just not down for even bracing myself for ten rounds of whether that makes him a chump or a dick, because I think it's so very admirable.
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In fairness, I do think Spike and Willow did something similar in trying to find a way to make themselves less dangerous, which is the important thing to me. Faith had to pull herself out of that spiral and stop, ergo, prison; Willow had to learn the ethical boundaries of magic, ergo, coven; Spike had to feel right and wrong rather than seeing it, ergo, soul. Different, but all admirable.
Angel and Anya are more problematic for me, as much as Anya is one of my favorites, because they don't choose the things that constrain them, I completely agree there.
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Well, Anya sort of does in Selfless, doesn't she? She chooses to give up her powers and become human - or rather, she chooses to die to undo her sins, and has her powers stripped and her friend killed instead.
I find Angel's redemption arc to be especially poignant, because with all of the other characters who are redeemed - Faith, Spike, Anya, Willow - you get a sense of a deeply flawed but fundamentally good person underneath, someone who regrets their mistakes and is more or less willing to die to set things right. And when they realize they don't have to die to set things right - that they can live, and be good, and do good - they emerge these incredibly strong and centered and heroic people.
I don't think Angel can ever reach that level, because I don't think he is a fundamentally good person - or a fundamentally strong person, at least. He can't be strong or ( ... )
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I have a really difficult time with that "intervention" in Consequences because it strikes me as far more tailored to whale away on this particular insecurity of Faith's rather than actually look at what was going on with her. We are a lot alike, Faith, BECAUSE YOU TOO SLAUGHTERED HALF OF EUROPE. nope. thanks for playing. He does help her in LA, I think, but I'm not wild about this arc on BtVS.
I think Faith always cares about and identifies with Angel because she believes what he tells her, but I think that's very sad and not a little bit disturbing, given the Dru parallels.
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Absolutely. I think it's quite telling that when Faith suggests this in Sanctuary, the best response Buffy can come up with is "Shut up!".
This leads to her journey into darkness, but it also makes her movement into the light a true, and beautiful, choice.
*loves*
This goes without saying, but it should be said anyway. Your discussion of awesome ladies is awesome. Thanks for writing so much wonderful meta!
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and thank you! These have been so much fun to write.
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Soooo agreed on the Angel intervention. WE ARE SO ALIKE, BECAUSE MY NATURE IS FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL, YOU KNOW, BUT I GOT OVER MY CENTURIES OF SLAUGHTER! EVEN THOUGH I WILL ALWAYS BE A MONSTER! LIKE YOU!
No, fail, please stop getting your issues all over my girl.
Love the Catholic connection. That hadn't ever occurred to me, in those terms anyway, and I really like it.
Faith straddles the line between BtVS, of the unwavering secular humanism, and AtS, with its resurrections and miracle births and Judas Iscariots.
So true. I love it. And it's part of why her redemption works so well, I think: I'd like to make a confession and her supernatural self and all the legal system's flaws, all that Angel stuff, but she is punished like a human. And this very secular punishment becomes a vigil/penance.
And then she smashes her way out, so easy, to come and save the world with her Watcher and I die of glee.
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I've never been wild about the projection in Consequences, obviously, but I didn't figure out why it made my skin crawl quite the way it did until putting together the Catholicism section of this post, really.
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MY GIRL.
And I mean, I am a Buffy Summers stan, but I WAS ACTUALLY A FAITH LEHANE STAN FIRST? And because those two are sort of put in opposition to each other, I always feel weird about being in this position where both girls make my heart hurt.
This:
It is a very explicit fear that she is intrinsically dirty, which existed before anything she ever did wrong.
YES. YES. THANK YOU. YOU GET IT. I WISH MORE PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD. But, you know, I guess it's kind of a good thing that most people don't understand, because... yeah.
That same sense of dirtiness, of experiencing oneself as a contaminant, oozes off Wesley - it’s why they clash when they meet from behind their respective facades, and a huge part of why they work so beautifully together once they’ve had to face themselves
ADLFJASDFKL;DSJFSKJ
( ... )
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I feel like there's a lot in Faith (and Wes for that matter, because they're a matched set and that's that) which is very visceral and you just see or don't emotionally. I don't know how not to see it, but I doubt I could explain it to someone who doesn't, you know? BUT WE GET IT.
because those two are sort of put in opposition to each otherI've always felt like the conflict makes the bonding at the end that much more poignant. That's one of my favorite things about those last few episodes is Faith is part of the team and they're really found some peace with each other, because they've finally found some peace with themselves ( ... )
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I feel like there's a lot in Faith (and Wes for that matter, because they're a matched set and that's that) which is very visceral and you just see or don't emotionally.
Yes. IDK, it actually hurts more than with other characters, I think. When I see people bashing, say, Buffy or Spike, I'll feel anything from annoyance to indifference. I can't really be rational with Faith, or Wes. I just walk away feeling shitty. It's crazy. Waaaay too much investment in fictional characters.
because that's almost exactly the wording he used to defend her when Angel was ready to break her in half in Five by Five: she's not a demon, Angel, she's a sick, sick girl!
Oh, man, yes. I completely forgot about that, but it's so right. Then comes the torturing and the venom-spewing, and then fast forward a couple years and he's right there. Ugh, their construction is perfect.
Faith and Wesley feel most like Buffy and Spike to me... their stories just make it perfect.
OH WHAT UP MORE RAINBOW VOMIT.
( ... )
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That's really why I don't see the Wesley meta project ever being finished...to me he's just so clearly this guy who loves the world a little more than he hates himself, so he's trying like all hell to help and not take his damage out on anyone. I'm just not down for even bracing myself for ten rounds of whether that makes him a chump or a dick, because I think it's so very admirable.
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