I am Rocky...

[playerts]

So this past week I have had the urge to start my workout again. Yesterday, I managed to run a mile. ONE MILE!! WOW! I felt re-born. I felt like a champ. I felt like Rocky. But back to reality, I have noticed many things about people and the area that I work in. It is quite humerus, like your arm bone. I call this "The Day of Lists

Comments

Well, the Conservative is here

[conservchris]

So, your afraid to argue in another Live Journal. That's alright, I can bring the argument anywhere. In case your friends missed it, this is what you posted:
>How I wait for the day to come when Conservatives are wiped off this earth. >This seems evil and vulgar, but it's the truth. They vote on a faith based >initiative, but then invade nations and kill their civilians for a cause >that lacks reason. Not only have we not found WMD's, but we have managed to >lose 900 soldiers and become the laughing stock of the world. How about we >learn something from the Phillipeans and put our citizens before policy. If >you are willing to learn something come talk to me, you have my username. I >won't be responding to this journal so bring it to my journal...

Conservatives vote for faith-based initiatives because America needs a sense of values and morals, especially with great people like Bill Clinton leading us. The place to start is with faith. You want to talk about lacking a reason for war. What was Sandy Berger covering up when he broke the law and left the National Archives with classified material stuffed down his pants? We have managed to lose 900 soldiers in Iraq - true, but how many soldiers did Great Britain lose appeasing Germany in the 1930's? And how many soldiers did they lose in WWII? Go back and read all the reports the Clinton Administration let out when they would periodically cruise missile attack Iraq. He stated then that Iraq had WMDs, and especially nuclear weapons. Why don't you believe that. And everyday we are learning of more nations that warned us of Saddam Hussein's intent to gain WMDs, up to the minute before we went in. How about the Phillipinos gain some balls, and stick up for their policy? But last time I checked, the Phillippines aren't such a major nation, so why not follow their policy? Obviously it works so well. I'm willing to learn something, but are you? I'm here so bring it on. And if you want more, visit Chris' Manifesto.

Your Argument is totally inconclusive

[conservchris]

The documents Berger took from the National Archives already were in the hands of the 9/11 commission and he knew this. He obviously was not trying to cover something up. Why he did what he did I do not know but to say that that has to do with our reason to go to war is ridiculous. To say that this would lead up to a world war 3 if we didn't do a "pre-emptive" strike is also completely unsupported. I know that hindsight is 20-20 but now that we know Iraq does not have any WMDs the more sensible option was to wait for the UN to go along with us and keep our alliances intact. The world has no respect for us anymore. In many peoples' eyes we are a rogue nation now like Iraq was 2 years ago. We don't have any respect for the opinions of other countries' peoples, just the major corporations that lobby for our government to get a foothold in the Middle East. By criticizing the Filipinos for pulling out of Iraq you are demonstrating the closed mindedness that Samir expressed so much disdain for. The Filipinos realized that one loss in Iraq, especially that hostage, would make their people oppose their country's actions even more. The faith of the people is more important than the war and The Fillipinos knew that. Bush did not. Because of this war he lost what is necessary to win the next election: the trust of Americans. By the way, at one point we did know that the Iraqis had WMDs, because the man in your user pic gave a whole lot of them to Saddam.

-Kevin

Re: Your Argument is totally inconclusive

[fonz6931]

kevin just raped ur life

The faith of the people...

[conservchris]

My first question to you is how do you know that the documents Sandy Berger took were already in the hands of the 9/11 Commission. They are not mentioned in the Commission's Report, which is beside the fact that they are classified. Once again, how do you know that classified documents he took were already in the hands of the Commission. If he was not trying to cover something up, what other explanation is there to taking the classified documents out in his pants. Since doing so is a violation of major intelligence-protection law. Next, how can you say that Iraq does not have WMDs? We know he transported them out of his country in the days before the war. We have found numerous stockpiles of chemical filled warshells. Several weeks ago we found the equipment to make nuclear weapons. That is besides the fact that Russia, Italy, Britain, Isreal, Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and many other countries and the intelligence bureaus notified us of Saddam's weapons, his weapons capabilities, and his search for more weapons. Today, we also know that the President was correct in stating that Saddam was trying to acquire uranium in Africa. What more evidence do you want? In saying we have no respect for other countries' opinions, I would like to look at what France did yesterday. They passed a law that would allow the government to restrict visitation and immigration from those countries that criticize the government of France. Want to talk about respect for others' opinions? The faith of the people is important, but at times people in high places must act to defend our country, and many times the reasons for our actions cannot be revealed. You liberals want to talk about the faith of the people, look me up when you have some faith.

Re: The faith of the people...

[conservchris]

First of all, a bipartisan committee found that the intelligence we had going into Iraq was wrong. You can not say that those are liberal lies because the committee was led by Republicans. On Fox News, your channel, they stated that the documents that Berger took were already in the hands of the commission. I may be stupid to actually trust FOX, the most dishonest news source on this planet. You see, a couple months ago Fox wrongly reported that Sarin gas was found in Iraq. This was later proven false but Fox never recanted their story. I have no idea why Sandy Berger had documents stuffed in his pants and socks, but whatever his reasoning is the 9-11 commission listed four times during Clinton's terms that he could have apprehended Bin Ladin. They also listed 8 times during Bush's first 8 months that he had the opportunity. (Check MSNBC, if you want to find sources check the transcripts for Scarborough Country yesterday,it is an extremely conservative talk show) Listen, I am not a Democrat and I do not think that everything they do is right but I am angered by the fact that conservatives can't swallow their pride and admit that everyone screwed up by allowing 9-11 to happen and that EVERYONE was fooled by faulty intelligence on Iraq. Blaming problems on Clinton is a conservative cop-out.
Honestly, do you think it is a good idea to visit France in these times? It would be dangerous for an American after all the hate aimed in their general direction after they decided not to back the Iraqi resolution. I mean how can our entire county speak out against France and try to rename French fries to freedom fries and then expect to be treated like best friends? I have faith, just not in our political environment right now. If liberals and conservatives could just work together I would have a whole lot more of it. I become more and more jaded by American politics every day when Liberals and Conservatives keep bickering about nonsense and they can't realize that their role is to work together and attempt to compromise on what will be best for the American people. I have seen very fews instances of compromise in the last few years because of how polarized our country is. My trust has to be earned by a politician when I realize that he is trying to better the country and not his own personal agenda. The Bush administration has not been accomplish this and I doubt they ever will.

-Kevin

Re: The faith of the people...

[conservchris]

“Liberals and Conservatives keep bickering about nonsense and they can’t realize that their role is to work together and attempt to compromise on what will be best for the American people.” You are such a bipartisan supporter, why doesn’t everyone listen to you? You make everyone feel all warm and friendly when you appease their political senses. You are so full of bullshit when you talk about the ‘bickering,’ and you are bickering yourself. The bipartisan committee was led by Republicans. Not only does that not make since, all you are doing is angering your conservative opponents. “I may be stupid to actually trust FOX, the most dishonest news source on this planet.” That definitely puts you in nicely with the Foxnews crowd, which by the way is the most watched news network, even though they ‘lie.’ Want to avoid partisan bickering, then don’t participate in it. Tell me how the Bush Administration is bettering their own agenda (other than to get reelected), and I don’t want any Michael Moore stretching of the truth.

Re: The faith of the people...

[conservchris]

I am not taking part in partisan bickering, just trying to prove to some conservative snob that his way is not the only possible way this world can work. I find there is a difference between bickering and trying to knock some conservative know-it-all off of his soapbox. By saying that the commission was led by Republicans I am not trying to make anyone mad. I am just stating a fact. The committee consisted of Republicans and Democrats but like many of our congressional committees the Republicans have more of a say because of their strength in overall congressional numbers. I would like to let you know that the Bush campaign is funded by almost every major energy company in this country. That is not a stretch of the truth. This is the reason I have lost faith in the current Republican leadership. They are against research to increase fuel efficiency in SUVs but they favor drilling for oil in Alaska. Three members of our country's leadership, including Bush, are deep in the American oil industry. I have a very good idea for how you should spend the rest of your summer. Buy biographies on our founding fathers (I will give you recommendations if you wish) and, after reading them, try to draw a conclusion about how they would feel about our current administration. These were some of the greatest minds EVER and they wrote something that I, along with many other Americans, hold sacred called the United States Constitution. Their dream for America was not of a nation run by corporate bigwigs but of a nation run by the people, for the people.

-Kevin

Re: The faith of the people...

[conservchris]

You are partisan bickering, and you’re just afraid to admit it. If you checked the facts, the Commission you are talking about had an equal number of Republicans and Democrats, and the co-Chairs were a Rep and a Dem. Try some facts on for size before you start your bickering. You say that the Bush campaign is funded by almost every energy corporation in the country, but I am curious. Give me some facts, once again, before you start bickering. The oil and gas industry is listed 15th of the top 20 industries donating to Bush-Cheney 2004.
http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/indus.asp?id=N00008072&cycle=2004
There are some facts for you, why don’t you try that sometime? You can use that same website to do some research. It is not related to any party or ideology, it is just a site that tracks the information based on FEC filings. If you don’t understand that, I can explain more to you. And if the industry facts don’t prove my point, look at the page of top contributors.
http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contrib.asp?id=N00008072&cycle=2004
The only energy company there is Southern Company. Not Halliburton, and no others that Michael Moore might tell you about. These facts are not a stretch of the truth, they are the truth. You give me some truth next time, not a stretch of the truth. Try giving some facts next time.

Re: The faith of the people...

[conservchris]

By the way, my explanation for saying that the republicans had a greater influence on the commission was not negated by anything you said. The numbers that I used on the energy companies were actually from his 2000 campaign. Not only are there contributers from every energy cabinet but many of his cambinet appointees were from energy companies like Enron, etc. My comment about partisan bickering did not apply to citizens, it was speaking of our governmental body and their inability to pass legislature and actually perform up to the standards that I hold because of partisan bickering. Although you constantly lower the maturity level of this debate by your constant accusations of bickering, I recommend you grow up and attempt to put half as many legitimate points in front of me as I have put in front of you rather than trying to give me some sort of low-level psychoanalysis about how I am afraid to admit to bickering.

Missing something?

[conservchris]

I have put many more legitimate points in front of you, you just don't seem to want to acknowledge the FACTS. I'm glad my explanation of the equal influence didn't change your opinion, it shows how much of a bigot you are that doesn't care about the facts, just the party line. For those of us that actually care about the facts, here are two more websites, these from President Bush's 2000 persidential run. These show the oil and gas industry as the eighth highest industry to donate, and only Enron in the list of highest contributors, at twelfth.
http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/indus/P00003335.htm
http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/contrib/P00003335.htm
So where are all these energy company donations you are speaking of? And who are all the Cabinet secretaries that came from energy companies? Do you have a list that says whom and from which company. This is the kind of factual evidence that you need to have an argument on a topic like this. Before you can raise yourself to my maturity and intelligence levels, you need to back your points up with some facts.

Wait, I found the list

[conservchris]

I found the list you might be wishing you could find right about now, showing which companies Bush's advisors and Cabinet secretaries come from.
http://www.opensecrets.org/bush/cabinet.asp
Besides Bush and Cheney, there is one other connection to energy. That is the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Alphonso Jackson, who was an advisor from American Electric Power. Now where are all these appointees you speak of?

Re: Wait, I found the list

[conservchris]

Secretary of Commerce Donald Evans was a Texas oilman. Secretary of the interior Gale Norton worked for the Mountain States Legal Foundation. This foundation was paid for by Amoco, Chevron, Exxon and Phillips 66. I guess being legal counsel for an energy counsel doesn't count. John Ashcroft's companies, before he became attorney general, received funding from BP Amoco, Occidental Petroleum and other companies of that nature. There are far more ties if you look at any site besides "opensecrets". I do not have time to look at skewed statistics on campaign funding when I do not have to. I know that every major corporation in America is on Bush's side and that everyone on the cabinet at least had close ties to a major corporate player. Those are not things you can give statistics for. You can list the corporations they worked for and were funded by. If you want to attack me and try calling names then I know that this argument is below me. If I want to be called names I will go back to elementary school. I hate when people are so offended by the facts that they substitute expressions of anger for rationality. The idea of someone from the party of Trent Lott, Strom Thurmond and Ric Santorum calling me a bigot is the exact definition of irony in my book.

-Kevin

Re: Wait, I found the list

[conservchris]

You mentioned two possible connections to oil, and you can't even prove Donald Evan's connection. I look at sites besides opensecrets, but whenthey provide acces to the thruth, I don't mind citing them. You do not have time to look at statistics and the facts, that's what's below you. The information opensecrets has is straight from the candidates filings with the FEC. If you have that much of a problem with a site like that, where do you get your un-'skewed' information?

Re: Wait, I found the list

[conservchris]

Donald Evans- http://www.klru.org/texasmonthlytalks/archives/evans/bio.asp
Solid proof. In fact, I have never even seen anything more solid than that. They actually say he was an oil CEO in a non-partisan, unskewed bio.
I am not saying you should look at information that isn't skewed. I am just saying that the internet is not the only place where that information is. I don't trust the statistics given by Michael Moore or Sean Hannity because they are simply mudslingers. They occasionally have good points but I completely disapprove of their methods. Read something by an accomplished journalist with a skewed viewpoint and you can not deny their points. Try Paul Krugman from the New York Times or... I was going to name someone from the Post but their journalists just aren't quite up to the standards of the Times. As long as you are not getting facts from Ann Coulter, I give them a good chance. By the way, if anyone reading this hasn't seen "This Land" on atomfilms.com make sure you check it out. It is a perfect representation of what this year's campaign is about.

-Kevin

The connections

[conservchris]

Yes, you have decided that Don Evans was an oil CEO. Do you now remember what secretary he is??? He is the Commerce Secretary. Isn't it natural that a Commerce Secretary has some business experience, or was that just happenstance. Not that it matters anyways, because you have shown 3 connections to the energy industry. Obviously a conspiracy, and enough to make you not want to vote for George W. Bush.

Re: The connections

[conservchris]

And there is also the most obvious one, Cheney. There are enough reasons not to vote for Bush to write a tomb on the subject. I don't even want to dig into that because honestly, I don't want to write a book, I just don't think that the Bush is as honest and morally upstanding as they make themselves out to be.

-Kevin