Language Learning is Fun!

[phloxyloxy]

I know that a bunch of people reading this are also total nerds, especially when it comes to languages, so I don't feel bad doing a little bit of advertising here (but if you want to skip that bit, there is a QUESTION AT THE END!).

I just started taking a FREE online course in ITALIAN at LiveMocha.com, after someone mentioned how it's way cheaper

Comments

[existentialgoat]

How do you, personally, define language fluency?

For a long time, I felt like you did about the definition of fluency. However, I've since lowered my standards for fluency, after I discovered that most people (including those with whom I interact professionally) don't use nearly so rigorous a definition.

I used to think I had to speak a foreign language as well as I do English in order to say I spoke it fluently. But then I realized that my English is always growing and improving, and it's never just going to stand still and wait for my Spanish or Italian to catch up.

As a rough guide, I'd say that if you can have an intelligent conversation on a wide variety of topics in mostly-correct grammar that flows, without big jagged holes while you try to figure out what's going on, you're fluent. My guess is that your German definitely meets my rough standards for fluency...and then some.

How would you describe [your/my/anyone's] language skills on a resumè? Which system of proficiency do you use?

My favorite system of proficiency is the Common European Framework for Languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages). However, since I wouldn't count on most employers being up on the ins and outs of different proficiency systems, my resume approximations are: if you're a C1 or C2, say "fluent;" if you're a B1 or B2, say "conversational knowledge;" if you're an A1 or A2, say "basic knowledge;" if you're in between two letters, round to whichever you feel is closest.

For example, I'd say my Spanish is at the C1 level of proficiency, so my resume says I'm fluent.

My Italian is more-or-less at the B2 level, so my resume says I have "conversational knowledge."

[phloxyloxy]

I think your answer to the first question is the difference between measuring fluency in a country where you don't need to depend on your foreign language to function and measuring fluency in a country where that language is the native language of most of the population. In the USA, I'd definitely say I'm fluent (enough) or more fluent than most people. But not here.

I'd seen the CEF before, but I know the US uses a different system, which is one of the reasons why I posted this question. When I was at the Goethe Instutite in 2007 they placed me in a C1 class, which I thought was a little too high at the time, but that's approximately where I think I still am. Definitely not to C2 yet.

Hm...do you think putting my C1 class next to my Goethe Instutite line on my resumè would work? That way it says something to those who *are* familiar with the system. Or would that be TMI and something better addressed in an interview?

[existentialgoat]

Ahhh, that makes sense. My estimation of my Spanish fluency might change if I were living someplace where I actually needed to speak Spanish all day every day to everyone.

Hmmm. I don't know whether I'd list the C1 or not. What kinds of jobs are you applying for with this resume?

[phloxyloxy]

What kinds of jobs are you applying for with this resume?

Good question. Ideally something where I would HAVE to use my German, in which case noting my level would seem appropriate.

For instance, there's a German-American society back home in MN, and the U of M(n) has a Center for Austrian Studies, though I bet their positions are filled by grad students.... But SOMETHING at a place like that would be neat.

[existentialgoat]

If I were you and applying for jobs in the US, I would leave the level off of the Goethe Institute listing--it seems like it an unnecessary complication, ESPECIALLY since you're already English-speaking-country-fluent in German--and then list the fact that I was "fluent in German" somewhere else. :)

[existentialgoat]

P.S. You've sucked me into livemocha now! I stayed up way too late last night parroting beginning Arabic words at my computer. (Do I remember any of them now? No. This would be why starting a foreign language at 2 am is a BAD PLAN.)

[phloxyloxy]

It's totally like crack, isn't it?! I have to make sure I don't spend too much time correcting English exercises (because sometimes others' corrections just aren't right enough) and instead focus on improving MY skills.

[existentialgoat]

It is--except that it's also productive! It's like productive crack!

So far, I haven't ventured into the correcting other people's English arena--I've been too busy with "Ooh, shiny new languages to learn!"

...it would probably be smarter of me to pick a language whose alphabet I already know. Especially since livemocha assumes that I already know the Arabic alphabet. Boo.