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Nov 13, 2006 02:15

this may or may not have been discussed countless times before, but me being a new member, wouldn't know either way ( Read more... )

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Comments 22

phactorial November 13 2006, 14:06:46 UTC
why yes, yes I would love to discuss Kant's epistemology/ontology. :D

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partycrashing November 13 2006, 22:36:55 UTC
aim: ddaveyz

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zentiger November 13 2006, 17:15:04 UTC
Slow down, kiddo. What in particular are you curious about in re: Cartesian dualism? There's no such thing - as far as I'm aware - as some sort of "master list" of arguments for and against it, and there's certainly no conclusion. (Lots of people will tell you that Cartesian dualism was dead a hundred years ago, but they're wrong.)

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partycrashing November 13 2006, 22:36:33 UTC
true that, but starting off with some well-known, compelling arguments wouldn't hurt.

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zentiger November 13 2006, 23:23:47 UTC
Descartes brings out his big gun in the Sixth Meditation.

Gassendi gets pissy about it in the Objections and Replies.

That's a good place to start.

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partycrashing November 14 2006, 01:44:22 UTC
gratias!

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karpitskiy November 13 2006, 20:49:35 UTC
Cartesian thinks, that the soul has freedom, the body is subordinated laws. There is a contradiction between freedom and necessity. Kant correlates freedom and necessity to two different ontological levels: transcendental level and empirical level. Therefore here there is not contradiction.

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partycrashing November 13 2006, 22:35:32 UTC
yeah that's what i was aiming for. thank you, i just needed validation that because he separates reality into two distinct relations - phenomenal/noumenal - there is a consistency in his logic.

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allyaneedisrick November 14 2006, 02:27:01 UTC
I dunno about any defniitive proff but I have seperated my mind from my body by using ayahuasca and so I definitly believe in it.

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partycrashing November 14 2006, 04:04:00 UTC
hahah

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allyaneedisrick November 14 2006, 05:11:01 UTC
if you ever have done Ayahuasca then you'd understand... and you definitly would nto be laughing. It kicks the crap out of you. Existing apart from your body is not a pleasant experience... its a very serious perspective to have. It's not liek a out of body experience thats the seperation of the spirit or soul if you will. The seperation of mind from body is quite different. Its like you lose access to your brain. Your brain is still there working somewhere but the only thing that exists to you is the voice in your head. You completely disconnect from the world and you become one with the universal mind. Its something that can only really be experienced... it isnt fun... but it is very enlightening for anyone that wants to expand their... perspective.

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partycrashing November 14 2006, 05:20:23 UTC
i'm laughing because that's the first time i've heard anyone on Livejournal talk about their spiritual experiences regarding the tribal cultures of the Amazon.

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bitches_tyrone November 15 2006, 05:39:11 UTC
My favorite argument against Cartesian dualism comes from Christian de Quincey's Radical Nature. He's a panpsychist, of the persuasion that consciousness goes all the way down, is inherent in matter. There are numerous arguments and departures in this book concerning such, and is more convincing than not, his points against idealism, dualism, materialism and such are all well made.

Early on in the book he states Noncausal. Quantum events are not causal. They are inherently unpredictable. The exact instant when an electron jumps orbit, or when a radioactive particle is emitted from an atom, is entirely random, entirely uncaused. To say that an event is "entirely uncaused" amounts, logical, to saying that it is "self-caused"; and this, as philosopher Arthur Young argued, is tantamount to saying that the event chooses that is, exhibits consciousness (Young, 1976a).
He utilizes quantum physics in part as evidence of matter having choice, or rather being intertwined with choice. His questions are much along the lines of matter and ( ... )

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partycrashing November 15 2006, 06:08:56 UTC
ahhh, very good point: tying in an axiom of monism: the existence of free will. i'm very impressed.

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partycrashing November 15 2006, 06:09:42 UTC
*this is unbelievably horribly worded, yet i hope the message is still sent across.

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bitches_tyrone November 15 2006, 06:49:27 UTC
Yeah, I got it. No probs. Just finished the book. Worthwhile, albeit repetitive to no small degree. At just short of 300 pages, it could've easily been condensed to half that space, methinks. There are a few non sequiturs, primarily along the lines of (1) consciousness exists everywhere (2) conscious things have meaning for themselves (3) that things have meaning they are therefore sacred. From (2) to (3) I can't draw a perfect line, but he goes with that a couple times. His goal is noble, to get people to think of the world in a different, more meaningful way, which the book may be capable of, but moving for the sacredness of every thing, to me, is far fetched, particularly in a world as fucked as ours (<--- self-promotion).

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