English as a second language

[peredur_glyn]

More or less explicit in this hateful article (front page today) in the red top The Sun is the supposition that anyone living in the UK who does not have English as a first language is automatically less intelligent, or at least less worthy, than those who do. (Edit: the headline was 'Broken English'. Make of that what you will.)

Comments

[ashkitty]

I saw that article! I didn't actually read it; more like 'someone on the bus near me was reading the Sun and I could see the headlines on the front', but at least I knew it existed. ;) I imagine they mean England for the same reason you do; I rather think there are more than 1 in 7 first-language Welsh speakers running around here.

And, you know, God forbid there be bilingual children. :p

Back home we get to hear a lot about how there are so many first-language Spanish speakers, but really, I have not ever noticed that the fact they use Spanish at home has made them any less competent at English. If for whatever reason you have to call someone in Oregon and it turns out they're a Mexican family, your best bet is talking to the youngest people in the house as they'll have the best English. :P

(Or, if you work where my flatmates did, they had a cheat sheet of Spanish phrases with the answes on them so they could just have the conversation in Spanish. The flaw with this plan, of course, is if there is any deviation from the script in the answer. It's sort of like a bit in Family Guy.)

[muckefuck]

This is borne out by census reports, which show mastery of English growing even in areas which experienced increased immigration, and in longitudinal studies of by the Pew Hispanic Center, which show that nearly 90% of second-generation Hispanic immigrants are completely fluent in English. The sad part is that their mastery of Spanish drops precipitously, with only a small minority still comfortable with it by the third generation. As far as I can tell, all the nonsense about Hispanic immigrants "not learning English" is nothing but nativist alarmism at--ZOMG!--having to tolerate incidental exposure to a foreign language.

[ashkitty]

Yes. It's basically stupid. :(

[peredur_glyn]

That doesn't surprise me at all. I've read a number of studies on Spanish speakers in the US and, if anything, the trend seems to show, as you say, a worsening in Spanish and an increase in English, which is rather sad. But I'm sure that if Spanish weren't so stigmatised in the US then children growing up with balanced bilingualism in Spanish AND English would become commonplace.

[ceirdwenfc]

I think that when children are spoken to in two languages (mom speaks Spanish, Dad speaks English for example), not only do they understand both, they speak to the correct parent with the correct language.

IMO, kids that can carry on in both languages would seem to be smarter than others of their age.

Also, what muckfuck says.

[peredur_glyn]

I think that when children are spoken to in two languages (mom speaks Spanish, Dad speaks English for example), not only do they understand both, they speak to the correct parent with the correct language.

You're right, of course. As if your observation weren't enough, there's packs of scholarship that proves this beyond doubt. Children pick this sort of thing up very easily--below the age of about 8 they're the best language learners on earth.

[ceirdwenfc]

Have you considered, with your expertise, writing an editorial in regards to this article, expressing your (outrage, indignation, annoyance - choose any word you like)? Perhaps, to a different paper citing The Sun article or would that be, I don't know what?

[peredur_glyn]

I hadn't really considered it. Slagging off tabloids in any other newspaper of worth is not going to help, I suspect, because their editors might well argue that it's what's expected of such publications. And if I wrote to The Sun they'd be unlikely to print my letter. At least, not without first removing any polysyllabic words.

Thanks for the idea, though. :) It would be good if there were a way to show the other side of the coin, but I fear that arguing with idiots (which is what it would probably come down to) is like trying to knock down a brick wall with your forehead.

[peredur_glyn]

That bit from Family Guy, if we're thinking about the same one, is one my all-time favourites. It's so surreal and yet so vaguely believable.

The Spanish situation in the US is vaguely similar to the Welsh one in the UK, I bet. The monoglot English speakers are aware of some people speaking some other language, but a) don't believe there's many of them, and b) can't understand how they could speak that language and not also have fine English. I could show the Sun editor a dozen academic studies which show that (most) children brought up with a first language that isn't English can nevertheless learn English to as good a level as children brought up with English as first language. But I bet he wouldn't take a blind bit of notice of it. Better to slag off the imagrunts.