Heart of a Tiger

[peppermintyrose]

Well, I've done a post on Bill-as-Eric, but I haven't done a post on Quinn-as-Eric. He's relatively popular too, so it's only fair, with all the suitor confusion. There's very little Quinn fic in the Fanfic.net fandom - but no one needs it when you can make Quinn into Eric. Mostly Quinn as a character called Quinn is wholly dismissed or used as a

Comments

[anonymous]

I would worry,though, about what happens when the tiger wants to alert you to the fact it's dinner time. It's bad enough when Earl stands with his front paws on my hip to get my attention (he's a big cat). If a tiger tried to balance against me, I'd be flat on the floor in no time.

Of course Quinn would only still be travelling for work if the vamps all disappear from the planet. I can't see him keeping his job and having Sookie in his life. They'd be more likely to be on the run and cooped up together all the time. That could get old kind of quickly, especially if Quinn wants to off everyone who's hurt Sookie. At least Sookie knows though that it would never work out for them even trying it. Quinn would have to kiss his mother and Frannie goodbye and who wants to ask a guy to do that for you? I think her assertion that she can't be with Quinn because she wants to be 'first' is misunderstood sometimes because people don't realise how terrible and real that threat over Quinn's head is. He can't put Sookie first because his entire family is in danger of being indebted to vampires. It's a horrible position to be in, and it's not going to end anytime soon.

I just worry that the fact that Quinn's new girl works for E(E)E too might cause problems for him if the vampires decided to use her as leverage too. Hopefully they'll leave her alone as she doesn't have much going for her other than her tiger-ness. And it's not like they can produce litters of cubs for the pits - it's one shifter per couple, if you're lucky. So no Secret Vampire Breeding programs, at least :)
Ooshka

[peppermintyrose]

I don't think you get a warning - I think said tiger pushes you into the kitchen and growls until their dinner is done. Or possibly eats you.

Oh, I think Sookie would kill any of them if she had to go on the run with them. Eric would be lucky to last a week, Bill would lose his temper and Sookie would stake him, Quinn would piss her off in about a month, Alcide would just be a nightmare in three days with the piking and whining, and Sam would never run. The only person Sookie could conceivably go on the run with would be Pam, who's seemingly not a pill. It's such a pity Sookie isn't a lesbian. Or she'd be with Pam as we speak, and no drama, no breakups. Pam would even tell her stuff that's going down, eliminating 90% of fights.

I agree - the whole "I want to be first" is used to crucify Sookie - but her alternative is asking Quinn to ditch his mother in her favour. The poor guy just can't have both. Sooner or later, he'd get injured in the pits, and Sookie would be their indentured servant because she can't bear to tell Quinn she has to let his mother die for her sake. Quinn wanted to ignore that and plough on ahead, but it doesn't work that way.

She can defend herself though, whereas Sookie can't. She's in danger just being in the country around vampires, and if she's so inclined, she can always go back home where even if they have leverage, they can't use it.

Lol - you should ask the Ancient Pythoness before you make claims like that. She may totally have some weird sex ritual that makes all the were tiger cubs you can fight against one another in the pits.

[anonymous]

That would actually make an awesome fanfic - Sookie explaining how she offed each guy as she went on the run with him, in the style of the women who confess their murders through song in the show 'Chicago'. It has lyrics like "And then he ran into my knife. He ran into my knife ten times." And each time she offs one, someone else has to scoop her up and carry her off to avoid the trouble that's now piling up behind her, but of course his days are numbered as, eventually, he'll annoy the shit out of her too.

Lol at the idea of Quinn's girlfriend as the Tigress of Prophecy, destined to bring the race back to prominence and to rule the planet with their stripiness and fondness for little cartons of full-fat milk (I learned that at Dreamworld). Sadly I am now picturing a basket of little tiger cubs all batting at each other with their paws, and tumbling about. It could be sooo cute!
Ooshka

[peppermintyrose]

That would be rather awesome. And of course, their first mistake would be scooping her up to "protect" her, and then getting her in the shit. Pam would ask. That's why I'm Team Lesbian.

There's always some Prophetess who's telling Sookie what to do, so I think the pain should be spread around. I think it would be so easy to find foster homes for the tigers - even if they do grow up to eat you. :D

[anonymous]

Well that would be the HEA to the story, Sookie runs off with Pam and never EVER feels the need to 'accidentally' do her in because Pam is far less annoying than any of the men in her life.

Yes, but Sookie would want to foster a tiger cub and that would put Eric's nose right out of joint and there would be much huffing and grumbling about the smelly tiger cub sleeping on the bed, and mumbled threats to bring Bubba for a visit until Sookie gives it away to Dermot, who proves to be quite the cat person and takes it on hunting trips in the woods with Bellenos :)
Ooshka

[peppermintyrose]

Totally - Pam would be a shoo in for HEA.

Oh my God. You almost need to write that fic now. :D I want Dermot to go for a hunting trip with a tiger cub and have a bromance with Bellenos. :D

[anonymous]

But then I thought some more, and got worried they might run into Terry. I'm not sure Terry could cope with seeing an elf, a half-fae and a tiger cub in the woods, and it would push him over the edge :)
Ooshka

[peppermintyrose]

Aww. Poor Terry. No he probably couldn't.

[finiteanarchy]

Ha. I love "The Cell Block Tango." It's one of my favorite Chicago songs. Sookie could always claim amnesia - she just woke up with blood all over her hands. And with all the witches and curses, who's to say otherwise?

Quinn is very much the protector. As much of an asset that can be, it's just as much a flaw. When I think of Quinn I think of someone that's been tossed a rather shitty hand in life. Some of that is of his own doing. But overall, Quinn is not a big picture guy. Or a big thinker type. He'll get in the fray and protect Sookie or his mother and Frannie without thinking about what he's doing, how he's doing it and what's going to happen afterward.

Quinn does a lot of things at personal risk to himself. But he does them without thinking about what would happen if he actually did get hurt. Say those bitten weres had gotten in a lucky hit a took him down for the count, what then? Or if some Were at Hair of the Dog did decide to start something because of accusations. All they'd need do is distract him long enough to attack her. He dove in front of that arrow for her but had those Britlingans not been so quick, that vamp may well have gotten off another shot, and no one, not even Eric (maybe fanfic Eric) would have dived in front of her for a second time. He indebted himself with vampires too without fully seeing what could be ahead for him - not that he's got a crystal ball or anything, but being a supernatural creature, he would already know about dealings with vampires. And obviously, vampire run betting pits had existed long before he joined the circuit.

So I'd say one of Quinn's problems is that he's not a planner, whereas Eric is (as he should be after 1000 years. It's a long time to sit around a bit and think). Aside from that, his machoistic attitude would really have drove a wedge between them eventually. Sookie's not the type to sit around wait for her menz to defend her (or her honor). She's done that all on her own for the previous 25 years. Also, I think Quinn really did a disservice to their relationship by lying (or omitting - however you want to label it) things about his past and his family. I could understand his reluctance in telling her but by not telling her and then waiting until a rather inopportune time to talk about it, all he did was get himself a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So I think, that all on his own, even if Quinn weren't indebted to vamps and Eric wasn't trying to cock block them every which way, Quinn still has too many personal flaws to make in work with her. The machoism, the family problems, keeping things from her, ugh...the babe thing. I could just see him getting into further problems purely on the fact that he doesn't think things through.

As for Fanfic Eric's need to spice things up in the bedroom...LOL. Yeah - it's always anal, or it's some form of being tied up and spanked. You would think writers would get a few more ideas with their HBO subscriptions. I don't know if you get this program in Australia but HBO occasionally has on this half-hour documentary called Real Sex, where they talk about a lot of different types of sex and various fetishes. I saw the episode on Pony Play. Not going to lie - weird. But hey, if the worst thing a person does in private is dress up like that...eh.

I thought that was a great point about Eric just wanting to have control over his own body and the need to control himself in that regard. The statement that he seeks fulfillment out of what other people find satisfying is also really poignant. And a very big coping mechanism.

[peppermintyrose]

I will agree - Quinn largely thinks with his blood - immediate and physical.

In all fairness though, no one - not even Eric - can have a foolproof plan for surprise attacks. What if the were that shot him through the window had an accomplice who went around the side of the car? What if Sookie didn't warn him something's wrong? That's setting a way higher standard for Quinn than there is for Eric - who has had to be saved by Sookie from Sigebert. Quinn meanwhile has never needed to be saved. It's not really fair to point out how it all could have gone wrong just because it's Quinn, but ignore that same quality when it comes to Eric - who actively puts Sookie in danger.

As for the lying by omission - case in point is the marriage to Freyda. Yet another "fault" that supposedly creates a self fulfilling prophecy that Eric and Quinn share. It was more complex than that - she found out about his mother and his history in the pits, and didn't hold it against him. It was only later when she saw that he had no choice but to choose his mother - and her killing people - over herself that Sookie took a dim view of it.

Sookie didn't have a problem with babe - that's reader transference, not a relationship problem for the actual characters. Eric also has family problems, by the name of Appius and Alexei, and probably soon Pam. Not to mention, Sookie has her own family issues, in the name of fairies.

It's always anal and BDSM - always. He never wants to do really weird shit. I think for me the weirdest thing about pony play porn is that there is *relatively little actual sex*. I kept watching the Dom ride these chicks and then play with them with stims, and thinking "Where's the porn in this porn?". Hence why I was dying to put Eric into his unicorn outfit for one of the Permaboners. A tribute, if you will. :D

I would say that from his point of view, he gave up long ago on even thinking about correcting the wrongs he sees. For his own sanity, he limits it to just himself. Along the way, he just stopped judging what anyone else does. It's something I see in my sister - and she has no history of sexual trauma whatsoever - but ask her whether incest is wrong, and she is *stumped*.

[finiteanarchy]

Yes that's true - and I had a feeling you were going to say that :P And certainly no one can plan for a surprise attack but I think it's a matter of knowing how to react in that surprise situation. For example, screaming your head off, when heads are flying probably isn't going to accomplish anything. Diving to the ground and getting out of the way might (or trying to, anyway). The warning is a good example too. She did warn Quinn before the bitten were attack and she also warned Eric before they shot up Stan's house (and warned him again with the were dressed as the cop). For me, it wasn't about holding them to the same standard, it was about their reactions to the situations. They react differently, one, I think, better than the other.

Yep, Freyda is a good example. I didn't comment on it because we don't know how it plays out yet. I wouldn't hold it against Sookie to break up with him over it. I think Quinn was selective about how much he revealed regarding his indebtedness to vampires and at what time. Granted, I haven't read those particular passages in a while, so I don't remember it perfectly. It wasn't just about having to take care of them, it was about how much he and they had been sucked into vampire ownership. Sookie figured out way back in the first book what it means to be threatened by vamps and what length they could go to if they wanted you to do something when she got that glimpse in Eric's head. So I'd still say it's part of the same cycle even if he could get himself out of the debt because he'd still have 2 people he would need to take care of before her and he didn't want that to impinge on their relationship (thus, more with the omission). I hope that paragraph made sense. It does in my head.

Yeah - I know. I just hate "babe." But we've discussed this. And "babe" makes me think of Babe Ruth, or Babe: Pig in the City. Or bleach blond surfers from California in the 80s. Or Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Haha.

Except now Appius and Alexi are dead. Problem solved. (Not counting all residual emotional problems.) If CH hadn't killed them, I think probably we'd see the same thing. Eric would go into a downward spiral of depression because he's lost control over himself with his maker there. Appius would sell him to Freyda and he'd be indentured to a different vampire - not so different from Quinn except that now they're dead.

I think it's funny there isn't a single fic about furries. Oh, something I forgot to mention - voyeurism. If you want to talk about holding up to the same standard, it's only ever okay if it's Eric doing the watching. If it's any one else - horrible! awful! crazy! stalker! I think you get my point.

I suppose you'd have to - for the sake of sanity. But still, he's probably had hundreds of years where he wouldn't have seen Appius that he could, over time learn to find what he wants rather than taking fulfillment from what the others want. It just makes me think what horribleness Appius had done to leave him like that.

[peppermintyrose]

In truth, the only reason Eric's solution works so well is because Sookie fends for herself. Or someone else takes up the slack. It means that they're compatible if Sookie keeps her moxie, but your standard female would be dead under Eric's care by now - but probably still alive under Quinn's care. The key to that is the uniqueness of Sookie, who doesn't freeze, not Eric's superiority.

But you look at the situation with hindsight and say that Quinn is to blame for the breakup. Would you then reward Eric in hindsight if it worked out for him?

I hate babe myself, because one of the swingers my sister has known since I was 5 always uses babe, and tries to touch my boobs when he hugs me. It sends shivers up my spine. But if Sookie doesn't mind it, then I'm not going to create a problem or project creepy swinger dude onto Quinn.

Except that the family problems they created still exist. And Eric's still 100% if he should go with a living Sookie, or what a dead Appius wanted.

Lol - yes - Eric can jack it in the bushes with no repercussions. He does it in a non-creepy way apparently. :D

Well that's another problem with sexual abuse victims - Sookie shows it to a lesser extent. That disconnect with sex - they don't see it the same way as everyone else does. It's just flesh, and there's no particular reason why it has to be done one way. That's part of the reason I think CH gave him the eye contact thing - that would have been a way to connect himself, and he did it while he's got amnesia. To have that remembered intimacy after so long? That's something absolutely unique to his relationship with Sookie - way more mindblowing than a bit of usual old anal.

[finiteanarchy]

That's true. Sookie survives with Eric because of who she is an her ability to fend for herself. I like that. She likes it too, in that she's not looking to be coddled by a protector. Which goes back to the point of being able to take care of herself - at least to an extent when it comes to the supernatural. She might not be as strong but she does have a sharp mind. While Sookie's moxie works with Eric, under Quinn I think it would eventually get suffocated with his need to be the big bad protector. Those are characteristics of both of them, where I think it would drive in a wedge.

I suppose that if Eric continued to keep things about the marriage from her (which would be a pretty bad move on his part) in the next book I'd lay the blame on him. It's hard to answer that question in with the hindsight of knowing all the information now. But I suppose Sookie might think the same. She made that judgement about Quinn whether she could accept how he told her these things and who he has to consider a priority. I think she's deciding the same thing again with Eric, Freyda and Appius. Where Quinn tried to keep Sookie, she won't do the same for Eric if he decides to go the other way. It's his decision there who he cares about more. So we'll have to see how that plays out next book.

That'll be the change for Eric. If he can decide against his dead maker's wishes.

The eye contact thing is nice. I wouldn't have thought of it that way before.

[peppermintyrose]

You're presuming that change is something a 1000 year old vampire can do, but Quinn can't. They would have certainly have had bad moments and possibly fights about it - but I don't think it's an insurmountable problem. Sookie even thinks that occasionally Quinn has a point:

"I opened my mouth to protest, but under these circumstances, it was hard to hand Quinn the line that I could take care of myself." ATD 179

Eric will continue to keep things from Sookie - he's already told her that. I would say that that's especially if they're not in his favour. He doesn't have enough books to do a turnaround and become sharing guy. He didn't tell her the bond could be broken, he hasn't told her how to break the pledge, he hasn't given her substantial information on Freyda. He hasn't even told her the conditions for their marriage, or what rules they were married under. This is not an issue - he's like that - hiding things *all the time*. And not just stuff to do with his business - stuff that affects Sookie.

It'll be Eric's test if he can actually put her first, without having to give up his area.

Lots of these things really stand out to me, because they're all tied up with how you get a sexual abuse victim to make strides.

[finiteanarchy]

Is it something he can change though? It's a fundamental piece of his character, that need to protect. It seems like something he'd do whether Sookie wants his protection or not. Changing the trait of protectiveness is asking something different from changing the ability to share. Protectiveness is something one of my lab groups is looking at now in a study we're doing on cops. I can't wait to see what we find. But fundamentally, through socialization and through nurturing in the family circuit, I'd consider it something that requires a completely different method and approach than the being able to share - which is a more socialized factor. It's really hard to say if Quinn would change in that regard. His protectiveness is something ingrained in him since a young age and for all. Whereas Eric's learned to not share because of his vampire lifestyle. I consider Eric learning to share kind of like baby steps. He remembers when he didn't have to be so guarded, which I think is an important difference from Quinn who probably saw the protectiveness factor starting at a very young age. We won't see Eric change dramatically on the page in regards to the sharing because it would take too long. Quinn's need to protect - maybe it can change - maybe not but it's fundamentally harder to do. (Yes, I realize I used fundamentally 3 times).

[peppermintyrose]

She hadn't complained about it too bitterly - and I don't think she would. And I'm sure if it came to informing her - which is primarily what Sookie wants - he'd be able to change just as quickly as Eric can.

I mean, Eric married Sookie for protection without asking - and she's furious with him about that. But they haven't broken up. I don't think Quinn would then use it as an opportunity to skip important bits of their relationship like Eric has.

1000 years of socialisation to the vampire way of life is one hell of a barrier to overcome - particularly when Eric has to change selectively. I don't doubt that Quinn could make it manageable. And if that's his *biggest* fault, then they'd be fine long term. Sookie's not ultra picky and immovable.

While I agree that Quinn saw protectiveness from a young age, if Sookie can put up with Eric saying unabashedly "Then I am high handed" and *not* changing, she could put up with protectiveness just as easily.

Eric won't have time to change before Sookie dies. He's just about as good as he's going to get.

Fundamentally. Fundamentally. Fundamentally. Fundamentally. I win. :D :D