Comments | pen_and_umbra: Thoughts of a Snape/Harry writer on HBP, plus lesbo cinema

pen_and_umbra

Thoughts of a Snape/Harry writer on HBP, plus lesbo cinema

Jul 17, 2005 18:57

To add to the flood of HBP posts: My thoughts as a Snape/Harry writer on HBP, and where I will go from here with said pairing.

( HBP SPOILERS! And personal opinions on events therein )

harry potter

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straussmonster July 17 2005, 09:52:14 UTC

All I can say is that if you write it, I might give it a chance and read it. Only after beer o'clock in the afternoon, but still.

[There are so many holes in the non ESE!Snape theories, but they make sense of things that don't otherwise...le sigh.]

pen_and_umbra July 17 2005, 10:06:01 UTC

Ahaha! You, reading Snape/Harry? I just might die of the shock. XD

Holes, yes, and so many possibilities and plausibilities. I've yet to put my ducks in neat rows, but soon-ish.

straussmonster July 17 2005, 10:07:54 UTC

I've *read* almost everything under the sun in fandom, if even just for the game of "Can I get through this without running to the freezer?" But to actually read Snape/Harry, that would be odd.

I've figured out what the thing which kills the whole plan is, but even it can be explained. Le sigh. It's going to be a long 2-3 years.

pen_and_umbra July 17 2005, 10:15:47 UTC

The plan-killer? There are many... my clincher is, why the hell didn't Dumbledore tell Harry of the possibility that Snape might have to AK him? Or anyone else in the Order? What is the usefulness of Snape as an undercover agent if no-one knows he is one?

Asfadsfasdgf!

I've come up with theories to overcome these obstacles, but damn if it isn't complicated. I'll need to make a flowchart thingy soon. :P

straussmonster July 17 2005, 10:25:33 UTC

GMTA. That's the same hole that I can't get over. With the renewed trust and the working together of Harry and DD, if DD thought that things might go egg-shaped and he KNOWS what Harry thinks of Snape (Harry's "People Snape hates end up dead comment"), WHY not tell him?

Makes no sense. None. Also the silence to the rest of the Order--DD must know that Harry will tell, and what he will.

That obstacle has no workaround that I can tell.

(*pimps nice commentary in own journal* ;)

pen_and_umbra July 17 2005, 10:46:53 UTC

I have theories on that, but they're rather inchoate at the moment. And wordy. From magical stuff to DD being forgetful to ulterior motives/purposes. I think I need to start writing a fic to work on those.

Sigh. Damn you, JKR, for re-activating my writing yearning.

auctasinistra July 17 2005, 18:54:21 UTC

Well, someone mentioned that what Harry knows, Voldemort can find out, and it might get Snape killed.

straussmonster July 17 2005, 19:05:51 UTC

This is true. But with no connections to the Order, we're relying upon Snape to act as some kind of free agent.

There are lovely holes on both sides. :)

auctasinistra July 17 2005, 19:32:13 UTC

we're relying upon Snape to act as some kind of free agent.

Or time bomb. :)

There are lovely holes on both sides. :)

There really are, aren't there? :)

we've only seen from Harry's POV original_tinks July 17 2005, 11:51:37 UTC

how do u know for sure there isn't someone that knows......or maybe he's supposed to stay close to voldie[like right hand man close] so that when harry has to face down voldie he can help or something?

Re: we've only seen from Harry's POV pen_and_umbra July 17 2005, 11:55:50 UTC

True, and that's actually one of my loopholes. ;) But from OotP, it seems to me that all anyone in the Order knows of the pact is that DD trusts Snape for his own reasons that nobody else knows. Even McG at the end of HBP says something to that effect. But yes, that's a valid theory. Just who it is or might be, that's up to us to decide -- before book 7 comes out, at least.

Re: we've only seen from Harry's POV straussmonster July 17 2005, 18:30:12 UTC

And that's so *appropriate* for DD but also so asshatted. On the one hand, it's Snape's secret and DD is willing to keep it. On the other hand, it's irresponsible because it does not solely affect DD but a lot of other people as well. And it's that gap between knowledge from actual knowing and knowledge that relies upon another person that's so dangerous, as shown from OotP.

Re: we've only seen from Harry's POV auctasinistra July 17 2005, 19:34:23 UTC

Maybe...and this may be one of the loopholes you guys are referring to ... Dumbledore has left behind something that will, if not convince Harry of Snape's wonderfulness, at least raise sufficient doubt in Harry's mind that he wouldn't instantly try to kill Snape (that is, assuming Harry not instantly trying to Snape is at all important to Dumbledore's plan).

Re: we've only seen from Harry's POV straussmonster July 17 2005, 19:47:02 UTC

It's possible, because HBP is really half of a whole. We've just switched genres, which is the most interesting thing to me--Harry is going off on the Grand Fantasy Quest.

That would be entirely *too* easy, in some ways. However, the other appeal of ESE!Snape (or at least double agent out for himself Snape) is that it means you can read other things fairly straightforwardly, as opposed to twisting into knots to explain them.

Re: we've only seen from Harry's POV auctasinistra July 17 2005, 20:21:03 UTC

Er ... we'll have to agree to differ on that "twisting into knots," if I'm understanding you correctly (I might not be). Throughout the book I saw nothing that convinced me Snape was a badguy, and one scene at least that was persuasive of his genuine feeling for Dumbledore. I mentioned elsewhere that I found myself partly reading the book as a writer, and every single point "condemning" Snape was equivocal. Every single damn' one. In that I clearly saw JKR setting herself up with outs. It read, for me, as a pretty straightforward way of making everyone think Snape was a bad guy without actually doing anything unequivocal to make him so. We know how she loves her twists and turnabouts.

And I still loved it and squeed my butt off.

Re: we've only seen from Harry's POV straussmonster July 17 2005, 20:28:27 UTC

No, but there's all this material pointing to Snape being someone who seriously holds grudges, who has a lot of pent-up bitterness from his school days, who still loves the Dark Arts in an unhealthy way. He completely flips his shit in the Shrieking Shack--which is a hard thing to deal with. What about Emmeline Vance? Did he really give over the info, or is he lying?

Snape has always been presented as a negative figure, but this has been mitigated by Dumbledore's trust and the play of Harry's POV being unreliable. The more straightforward reading is that Snape is out for himself and resentful.

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