what we mean when we "enjoy" fiction

[pellucid]

Two slightly related things have made me a bit thinky about what we mean when we like/love/enjoy a book/film/television show/character/etc.

The first is this fascinating post by

Comments

[clueless_02]

Fascinating meta!!

And I have to echo your sentiment about loving certain characters but wanting nothing to do with them in the real world.

Because I tend to over analyze pretty much everything, I can sort of combined the whole enjoy a book because it is fun/because it makes me think about things. I will say that 1984 was one of the few books that I read because it made me think about things and not because I enjoyed another aspect of the book.

Re The Wire: I remember finishing the first season of the show and being like, where is the justice/closure at? I did manage to watch the rest of the series but that show hurt to watch at times.

Anyways, is Ulysses by James Joyce?

[pellucid]

Yes, Joyce's Ulysses. I should have specified, since that's not a unique title!

My problem with books that are both page-turners and thinky is that a dozen years of post-secondary English studies has really strongly affected the way I interact with reading. Unless a book is really mindless, I have to very consciously turn off the "how would I teach this?/what would I write about this?" impulse (if I'm not actually going to teach/write about it and don't feel like spending the time doing that kind of thinking), and then when I do I feel guilty. Bah! So those are the kinds of books I want to like best, I think, but it doesn't always work that way.

[clueless_02]

Well, your description of the novel sort of pointed out that it was Joyce. I have actually wanted to read that novel for some time now, but I always seem to pick up something new before I get started with it. I read a short story of his called 'Araby' when I was a senior in high school and it was one of the few light bulb moments I had during my senioritis period.

Oh, I understand completely about how college makes you start analyzing everything in terms of your discipline. Oh, look it's a German film about a murderer in 1930s; but no, the film is really a commentary on the developing Nazi Party and the general upheaval that plagued Germany since after WWI.

[emmiere]

I very much approve of this post! :)

I first read Possession while delayed in an airport: not only did I hardly notice the delay, but when the plan landed, I was disappointed that we'd arrived because I wasn't quite finished with the book.

Ahaha, yes. I know that feeling very well.

And this whole discussion is very similar to one I had with my mother about why I "don't just watch and enjoy", where we were using completely different definitions of enjoyment and frustrating each other because of it. Because I do have certain books or media I adorable unreasonably and absolutely just because and you will never convince me otherwise with things like *logic*. But my favorites are also the ones that do both fun and thinkiness as well to create something exponentially more awesome, and I will always find it easier to get into something that doesn't push awful personal buttons. Even if I'm not thinking too much about it intellectually.

[pellucid]

This gives me a way to reframe the "why don't you just watch and enjoy" discussion in a way that might possibly be less frustrating? Because I feel like I've never had a particularly good way to respond to people who think that analyzing something takes all the fun out of it (and this is definitely something that I've been accused of doing--more by my sister than my mother, among people in my family, and certainly by people on the internet). And I do tend to respond that "this IS fun for me" but having broader categories for different ways of enjoying things might help. (Of course then we might be criticized for over-analyzing enjoyment!)

Interestingly, in my circles this can go the other way, too. I've had frustrating discussions about The Wire, for instance, with people whose frame of enjoyment is mostly-to-exclusively analysis, and I've had trouble conveying the sense of "I recognize that this is absolutely brilliant, but I just don't enjoy it."

[pellucid]

I think in some ways if we just flipped opinions about books in general and TV in general we'd be in each other's frame of mind. Because grad school has ruined the way I interact with reading, it's usually an effort for me to pick up a book in my down time (I hate this! it's one of the reasons I want to leave academia, in hopes that it's something that would go away in with some time and distance). Most of the time I'm glad I did, but just like you say with watching something like TSCC, I often spend more time thinking about books than I do actually reading them. There's also the problem that I mentioned in an above comment: if a book has much intellectual content at all, I have to very consciously decide whether I'm going to let myself think about "how would I teach this?/what might I write about this?"--and if I do let myself think that way it often stresses me out, and if I don't, it makes me feel guilty. These are all barriers I have the capacity to overcome--and when I'm in the middle of reading a great book I always think, "THIS

[gabolange]

I thought of you when I first read thefourthvine's post when it came up on my list, because we've discussed once or twice that we differ in how we define "enjoying" media

[gabolange]

I don't think that when I say I identify with someone I can always or necessarily picture myself in their shoes or believe I could come across them in my ordinary life. I think what it means for me is that they have traits or behaviors that I understand innately; I get Sam Carter and Temperance Brennan in ways I have attempted but probably failed to describe, because there's something about the way they interact with their worlds that is strikingly similar to the way I interact with mine

[pellucid]

I suspect I don't really have to point you to this because you'll come back and look at the thread, but in case you don't: my contribution to the character conversation, which is sort of a response to you and Chaila collectively. :)

[anonymous]

I'm a bit embarassed to post such a short comments after all the well thought out ones but it's late so I'm just going to say I would love to read a Gillian and Sam Carter story, esp. if it involved Gillian finding out about the Stargate (having to then keep it from Cal would be even better since after this week's ep I am completely entranced with Gillian's relationship to secrets).