Re: what's the point?peaches5446September 6 2005, 13:16:08 UTC
I must admit Tim, when I saw I had a comment from you, I was like uh-oh... I think I've offended someone ;)
"I really don't see why you should go vegan, since most dairy animals actually lead pretty decent lives"
Actually, most dairy animals lead terrible lives in cramped and dirty quarters, pushing out far more milk and eggs than is natural. The farm owners, knowing that time is money, make chickens and cows produce enormous amounts of eggs and milk at the expense of the animal's well being. These animals live radically shortened and painful lives. Aside from that, the dairy and meat industry are directly related to each other. And aside from that, milk (let alone eggs) isn't at good for you as most people once thought.
"why do you make such a great effort to feel pain for something that is not associated with you? "
Have you ever had a dog? If so, you've probably felt some amount of affection for it. Dairy animals are animals too; although we wouldn't dream of eating our dogs (usually :)). Also, I think it's human responsibility to feel pain for things not directly associated with you. It's called compassion, I believe.
"Aside from that, would your opinion change if the animals were killed in an entirely humane manner?"
No, meat is still bad for you.
"Have you seen the way a wild predator kills?"
They are wild predators. Last I checked, I'm not.
Thanks for the questions, Tim. I felt they were genuinely curious, not just SO WHAT ANIMALS ARE STUPID.
Re: what's the point?_deicide_September 6 2005, 18:10:20 UTC
just a note, chickens aren't dairy, last I checked. Anyway, There are alternatives to the way most Americans raise their chickens. Free Range chickens are much healthier, and produce larger, better eggs than chickens kept permanently in a coop. And so far as I know, I've never seen a dairy cow mistreated, since that tends to reduce milk yields. Also, the increased amounts of milk that we get from cows these days are due to selectively breeding the cows that gave the most milk. The amount of milk we take from them is actually helpful, because their calves don't drink all of it (just ask any nursing mother).
Meat isn't bad for you, if eaten in a balanced diet. of course too much meat is bad for you, but so is too much peanut butter, or too many potatoes.
In a way, you actually are a predator. Humans are classified as omnivores, eating both plants (using their molars), and meat (with incisors and canines). Now, food is a necessity, and I'll bet that if you didn't have thousands of people in the food processing industries making food for you, you would be eating meat, since keeping some animals is much easier than growing crops. and killing is killing, whether it is painful or not.
I have a question though: would you be willing to kill something to prolong your existence?
Re: what's the point?peaches5446September 7 2005, 03:34:03 UTC
"just a note, chickens aren't dairy, last I checked."
Chickens aren't. Eggs are considered dairy though.
"There are alternatives to the way most Americans raise their chickens. Free Range chickens are much healthier, and produce larger, better eggs than chickens kept permanently in a coop."
Free range chickens are better treated, yes. Would I eat one? Nope.
"And so far as I know, I've never seen a dairy cow mistreated, since that tends to reduce milk yields."
Both great sites, very informative. I could go on and on and on about this point, but I'll let the sites do it for me.
"The amount of milk we take from them is actually helpful, because their calves don't drink all of it (just ask any nursing mother)."
Actually, calves don't get most of it. Male calves are generally worthless except as veal. Female calves are seperated with their mothers very soon after birth to become dairy cows also.
"Meat isn't bad for you, if eaten in a balanced diet. of course too much meat is bad for you, but so is too much peanut butter, or too many potatoes. "
Yes, any diet of just one food is considered unhealthy. However meat contains cholesterol, large amounts of fat, growth hormones, antibacterial drugs, pesticides, and herbicides.
"In a way, you actually are a predator. Humans are classified as omnivores, eating both plants (using their molars), and meat (with incisors and canines)."
Actually, humans have short, thin fingernails, relatively small incisors, long digestive tracts, and the lack of an acid that typically digests protein in carnivores. We're far more herbivorous than carnivorous.
"I have a question though: would you be willing to kill something to prolong your existence?"
This, I don't know. I thought I was this great humanitarian until today, when I realized that I'm just as selfish and self serving as anyone else. In light of that, yes, probably, but I don't know for sure.
Throw some more statements at me. I've done my homework, and this is fun!
Re: A Great Human and Humanistla_riposteSeptember 7 2005, 04:06:17 UTC
"'I have a question though: would you be willing to kill something to prolong your existence?'
This, I don't know. I thought I was this great humanitarian until today, when I realized that I'm just as selfish and self serving as anyone else. In light of that, yes, probably, but I don't know for sure."
You're so damnably selfish to waste time criticizing your alleged selfishness (so as to cure it), you know.
Your criticism, you know, undoes your theory. If you have extra time, please, I'd like for you to read An Attack of Nerves by Anton Chekhov. Call me when you will. I love you, beautiful person.
"I really don't see why you should go vegan, since most dairy animals actually lead pretty decent lives"
Actually, most dairy animals lead terrible lives in cramped and dirty quarters, pushing out far more milk and eggs than is natural. The farm owners, knowing that time is money, make chickens and cows produce enormous amounts of eggs and milk at the expense of the animal's well being. These animals live radically shortened and painful lives. Aside from that, the dairy and meat industry are directly related to each other. And aside from that, milk (let alone eggs) isn't at good for you as most people once thought.
"why do you make such a great effort to feel pain for something that is not associated with you? "
Have you ever had a dog? If so, you've probably felt some amount of affection for it. Dairy animals are animals too; although we wouldn't dream of eating our dogs (usually :)). Also, I think it's human responsibility to feel pain for things not directly associated with you. It's called compassion, I believe.
"Aside from that, would your opinion change if the animals were killed in an entirely humane manner?"
No, meat is still bad for you.
"Have you seen the way a wild predator kills?"
They are wild predators. Last I checked, I'm not.
Thanks for the questions, Tim. I felt they were genuinely curious, not just SO WHAT ANIMALS ARE STUPID.
~C.
Reply
Meat isn't bad for you, if eaten in a balanced diet. of course too much meat is bad for you, but so is too much peanut butter, or too many potatoes.
In a way, you actually are a predator. Humans are classified as omnivores, eating both plants (using their molars), and meat (with incisors and canines). Now, food is a necessity, and I'll bet that if you didn't have thousands of people in the food processing industries making food for you, you would be eating meat, since keeping some animals is much easier than growing crops. and killing is killing, whether it is painful or not.
I have a question though: would you be willing to kill something to prolong your existence?
Reply
Reply
Chickens aren't. Eggs are considered dairy though.
"There are alternatives to the way most Americans raise their chickens. Free Range chickens are much healthier, and produce larger, better eggs than chickens kept permanently in a coop."
Free range chickens are better treated, yes. Would I eat one? Nope.
"And so far as I know, I've never seen a dairy cow mistreated, since that tends to reduce milk yields."
http://www.farmedanimal.net/Newsletters/Newslettern4v2.htm
or
http://b33tl3bum.tripod.com/dairycattle.html
Both great sites, very informative. I could go on and on and on about this point, but I'll let the sites do it for me.
"The amount of milk we take from them is actually helpful, because their calves don't drink all of it (just ask any nursing mother)."
Actually, calves don't get most of it. Male calves are generally worthless except as veal. Female calves are seperated with their mothers very soon after birth to become dairy cows also.
"Meat isn't bad for you, if eaten in a balanced diet. of course too much meat is bad for you, but so is too much peanut butter, or too many potatoes. "
Yes, any diet of just one food is considered unhealthy. However meat contains cholesterol, large amounts of fat, growth hormones, antibacterial drugs, pesticides, and herbicides.
"In a way, you actually are a predator. Humans are classified as omnivores, eating both plants (using their molars), and meat (with incisors and canines)."
Actually, humans have short, thin fingernails, relatively small incisors, long digestive tracts, and the lack of an acid that typically digests protein in carnivores. We're far more herbivorous than carnivorous.
"I have a question though: would you be willing to kill something to prolong your existence?"
This, I don't know. I thought I was this great humanitarian until today, when I realized that I'm just as selfish and self serving as anyone else. In light of that, yes, probably, but I don't know for sure.
Throw some more statements at me. I've done my homework, and this is fun!
~C.
Reply
This, I don't know. I thought I was this great humanitarian until today, when I realized that I'm just as selfish and self serving as anyone else. In light of that, yes, probably, but I don't know for sure."
You're so damnably selfish to waste time criticizing your alleged selfishness (so as to cure it), you know.
Your criticism, you know, undoes your theory. If you have extra time, please, I'd like for you to read An Attack of Nerves by Anton Chekhov. Call me when you will. I love you, beautiful person.
Reply
: )
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