Fic Rec Post #1! (August 25-312009)
So, as promised here's my first rec post! I decided to do it retroactively, so here's for the last week of August. I did a big Merlin rec list not too long ago for 
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Today there are other sites for such things. Delicious being the most popular within fandom, and fic finder comms to some extent as well. The recs that appear on people's flist are more a reaction as while the rec'er is still on a fic high than an actual list or an argument as to why you should read it.
But I digress, having an explanation as to why a fic is good or not is really useful. I know that I often search out rec lists when I first get into a fandom or pairing and it can be frustrating when people just post lists of fic.
There are a lot of thematic fics rec lists too, which, IMO, need a reason even more that fandom wide ones. If there are enough fics of a certain trope or theme for an entire list to be made, I want to know which ones are good. I'm a moody reader but often those moods don't last too long so if I suddenly want to read, say, dark dub-con, then I want to read the *good* ones, not necessarily all that exist.
And listing off the good and the bad with a rec can be important because there are some things that people absolutely cannot stand and others that bug you but you're willing to put up with for something else done well.
Like I think a lot of the wank surrounding Coming Home by xanthelj could have been avoided if this had happened. Because, let's face it, it built a really interesting world, had some awesome power dynamics between the boys and had some super hot BDSM sex but the world wasn't always believable, the facts didn't always check out at closer examination and the characters could be OOC. Some people just don't find BDSM hot enough to get over the other things not done as well.
There are people like me who say, "Yes, it's a smaller community, but it shouldn't be treated as such" and I know there are people who disagree with me. It's one of those fandom dividing lines.
I think the difference too between the pro communities and fandom ones is that the fourth wall doesn't really exist here. I'm sure pro reviewers know that the creator (or at least someone representing the creator) will view their words however I'm sure they wouldn't expect the creator as well as all his/her friends to show up at their publishers to call the review on their words.
And in the other direction, there are a lot of people that believe the fourth wall exists in fandom so think if they link to something or talk about it online that the creator won't find it. Linking to something especially can guarantee that the creator finds it.
Another difference is that to many people fandom is about the fun-time-pretendy-games which is based on a gift economy.
In the pro world the creator is being compensated with money and has contracts in place to ensure that they don't pull out once they publish.
In fandom creators are compensated with appreciation. If an author begins to feel that they aren't getting the appreciation that they want then they can stop writing or slow down or even pull all their works from the internet. We'll often laugh or call them thin skinned when they do but it won't make them come back and if people were actually enjoying the creator's product then it can feel like a blow and fans strike out at those they feel are to blame. Sometimes that's the creator, sometimes it's at those that hurt the creator's feelings.
Then there's the whole cult of nice idea. I'm probably someone who subscribes to the cult of nice more than I really want to but, hell, it's the Canadian way. We are nice and polite to people's faces and then talk behind their back if we feel it necessary.
I do think there's a line between being mean and being honest though. And I think recs are the perfect place to examine that. A true rec is like constructive feedback, obviously the rec'er liked the work enough to suggest others check it out but here are some things that could be done better next time.
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Seriously, we need a better signifier. These are the kinds of fic I sometimes like to read, but I probably pass over a lot of them because the designation isn't always clear.
If there's intent and no action (where action can include the pairing admitting their feelings and a fade to black) then I consider it preslash.
Hmm. I think intent definitely counts, so I'm not sure how I'd classify that. Maybe just designate unrequited UST? Be descriptive in your notes, authors!
There seems to be a lot more "drive by recs" where the rec'er is mostly making a squee post urging others to read.
I think there's a place for drive by squee recs, but I really do miss the way they're replacing traditional reccing. And I'm not terribly a fan of delicious, so I probably miss them more than most.
It's one thing to bookmark a fic, but traditional bookmarking functions within browsers really only allow for a link and a title, no room for an additional explanation of why you might want to go back to revisit that site.
Yup. And this is how I end up with bookmarks in my browser with completely ridiculous link titles (e.g., Frank/Gerard, weirdly detailed porn). Half the time I think the titles I use to remember fic are more fun than the fic itself. Then again, I'm easily amused.
...the world wasn't always believable, the facts didn't always check out at closer examination and the characters could be OOC.
Ooh, funny. I liked her world building, but definitely agree on the OOC bit. Then again, with an AU it's kind of hard to call OOC. That's another sort of fine line.
I'm sure pro reviewers know that the creator (or at least someone representing the creator) will view their words however I'm sure they wouldn't expect the creator as well as all his/her friends to show up at their publishers to call the review on their words.
So true! I think maybe it's less of a fourth wall issue in general and more of a people may gang up on you issue specifically. Individual authors are usually fairly reasonable and even if they're not, you're only dealing with one person. It's when the fan club comes out that things can get touchy.
Another difference is that to many people fandom is about the fun-time-pretendy-games which is based on a gift economy.
So true! The gift economy really causes some problems. And that really hits my ungrateful button. The idea that an author thinks his/her fic requires a specific amount of attention for the writing of it to be considered worth it bothers me. You can safely assume that only 20% of people who read comment, so it's not like your fic isn't getting read. (I find it hard to believe there are people whose fic doesn't get read, but I could be way off base on that.) Then again I don't hang out with writers, so my perspective on the gift economy is probably skewed, too.
Then there's the whole cult of nice idea.
And while I think there's value in playing nicely with each other, I think cult of nice is often synonymous with not having a dissenting opinion. And personally, I want people to have an opinion. Even if your opinion is that a fic/meta/meme/etc. isn't worth commenting on because it just didn't strike a chord with you, that's still an opinion that you should feel free to express. And it shouldn't carry a threat of reprisal from others, no matter how vague.
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Yeah, I do that too. Or skip over fics because it's not my OTP or something. Terminator kind of got me over that. There was so little fic in that fandom that I ended up reading everything I could get my hands on. And even though I'm in more prolific fandoms now I find some of that has stuck. I was reading femslash last night.
I think intent definitely counts
So if intent counts, what would *you* classify as preslash? Fics where if you have your slash goggles on you could imagine more happening? Fics where one character is thinking about their friend but hasn't made the jump from friend to something more? Because those strike me more as gen.
It's such an ambiguous term!
I'm not terribly a fan of delicious, so I probably miss them more than most.
Even though I discovered Delicious years ago it's only very, very recently that I've started using it. It's kind of something you need to get the hang of and often it's most useful if you can find someone with similar reading habits and just follow them.
People's levels of organization can vary greatly, as well as what they use their account for. Some people post just fic, others throw in recipes and links to their children's pictures.
I know some people will go to delicious and search for a specific pairing and then just read the fics that have been bookmarked the most. I used to do that, however I'm constantly bemused when looking at the numbers of previous bookmarks for the things I bookmark. So many of my bookmarks I'm one of the first people to bookmark it. Or at least in the first 50. Very few of my bookmarks have had 200+ people bookmark it. Part of that is that podfic is rarely bookmarked. Also, certain fandoms are more likely to be bookmarked than others. SGA and Merlin have a lot of people using Delicious, however Terminator, not so much.
Mostly though it makes me wonder about the logistics of how fics are rec'ed. How good fic can be passed over since they weren't advertised in the right comms or the writer was an unknown. Or how one persons rec can increase visibility.
And this is how I end up with bookmarks in my browser with completely ridiculous link titles
Ha, now I really want to see your bookmarks!
Ooh, funny. I liked her world building
Oh, I really liked it too. I especially appreciated her NCIS Xover follow up fic for expanding on her world building. However I got in a fight once with amireal over it, since she found it really unbelievable and I had to concede to some of her points.
I was happy enough to have a different and interesting world to play with, amireal wanted more explanations as to how such a world could work in a broader social and political sense. *shrugs*
The idea that an author thinks his/her fic requires a specific amount of attention for the writing of it to be considered worth it bothers me.
I don't know if the thought process is quite that selfish. I know that if you produce something and get one comment you might think no one is really reading it or would miss you if you were to stop. I know that I was surprised to find that there were actually people that wished I would vid more. I just didn't realize I had a following.
Or, if you're someone who normally gets 50 comments when you post something and you post the beginning of a series and only get 3 comments you might think it's more worth your time to do a different series that more people might like.
Beyond that, I know that when I receive feedback it inspires me to be more creative. I get excited and my creative juices start flowing so I might end up creating something when otherwise I would have spent the night reading.
Everyone has various demands on their time and some just use feedback as a meter for whether or not creating in fandom is worth their time.
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Yeah, I do that too. Or skip over fics because it's not my OTP or something. And even though I'm in more prolific fandoms now I find some of that has stuck. I was reading femslash last night.
Heh. Bandom wasn't nearly as prolific as I'd expected (seriously, SGA ruined me for all other fandoms, I think) and I ended up reading pairings that weren't my OTP and became a little OTPy and genderswap, which I usually hate with a burning passion. The things we do in desperation! But, like you, I'm glad I did -- I discovered some great fics and pairings that way.
So if intent counts, what would *you* classify as preslash? Fics where one character is thinking about their friend but hasn't made the jump from friend to something more? Because those strike me more as gen.
For me, any sort of gay content automatically qualifies for a slash signifier, be it preslash or otherwise. So a fic where Character A is thinking romantically about Character B even if nothing happens would be disqualified as gen and would qualify as preslash for me.
I'm constantly bemused when looking at the numbers of previous bookmarks for the things I bookmark.
One of the things that really bothers me about Delicious is that it doesn't aggregate bookmarks. There about 75 different addresses for the same LJ post and without aggregation, it's hard to tell how many times a fic's been bookmarked.
How good fic can be passed over since they weren't advertised in the right comms or the writer was an unknown. Or how one persons rec can increase visibility.
This, absolutely. And I wish there were an easier way to give fic from good but unknown writers attention. I understand not taking a risk on a writer you don't know, but at the same time we're probably missing a lot of good fic for it. You have no idea if Writer A is awesome and just hasn't had the nerve to post anything yet or if Writer B was a beloved author in another fandom and you've just never heard of him/her. We all have ridiculous ways of making snap judgments about people (I know I'm guilty of using journal names and icons) that probably have little reflection on the quality of a person's writing.
Ha, now I really want to see your bookmarks!
The more I read, the more become one of those storyfinder people where the most vivid detail I recall from a fic has little or nothing to do with the plot of the fic itself. So the one where Gerard gets his phone mixed up with Christina Ricci's is not at all about that, but instead is the AU where Gerard's a copy boy and Frankie's the muffin guy and they fall in love and live happily ever after. It's crazymaking when I remember the wrong detail and become incapable of finding the story I'm after.
Or, if you're someone who normally gets 50 comments when you post something and you post the beginning of a series and only get 3 comments you might think it's more worth your time to do a different series that more people might like.
That's a fair point.
I know that I was surprised to find that there were actually people that wished I would vid more. I just didn't realize I had a following.
Dude, I wish you would vid more! *is totally a follower*
But I know what you mean -- there's no reliable way to judge how many people are interested in your work, but I'd bet it's almost always more than you'd expect. Fandom's crazy like that.
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Hmm, I had to go back and read through some of my responses there since I'm not quite sure what I was saying. :P I'm not sure if I'm going back on what I said earlier and if so, this might just show that my definition changes a lot. Anyway, if the fic is all about character A saying that they want to jump character B, you're right it shouldn't be gen. Gen is fic where romantic feelings aren't the focus of the fic, so I'd probably put it down as pre-het/slash/femslash (depending on the genders of characters A & B). Thinking back though, I'm not sure if that's what I was doing on my delicious....
One of the things that really bothers me about Delicious is that it doesn't aggregate bookmarks. There about 75 different addresses for the same LJ post and without aggregation, it's hard to tell how many times a fic's been bookmarked.
That's true, however it can be handy when you're bookmarking comment fic that it doesn't mush them all together as one, or do stats on them as one. although I'm sure it's far more likely the case that stats are being done wrong because of cut tags or format=light type crap. I always make sure to get rid of that unless there's a specific reason (like multiple fics in a single entry I'll link to the specific cut tag).
This, absolutely. And I wish there were an easier way to give fic from good but unknown writers attention.
Yeah, it seems odd to me that in these days of LJ (with no real search function or central archiving features) and the hugely prolific amounts of fic available, that rec lists seem to be on the decline. When I first got into fandom there were quite a few, well maintained and easily searched rec lists out there and fans would flock to them. These days though there are more thematic lists of all the mpreg or high school AUs or whatever the fuck than actual rec lists. And I think it doesn't help that when people are rec'ing things, they're doing it on their LJs instead of webpages with Google indexing. I kind of hate that so many people prevent Google from indexing their journals. I can understand it, but it makes me sad since it makes LJ so unusable for fic finding.
On that note, I really need to make an effort and move my recs onto my webpage, even though my journal is Google indexed.
We all have ridiculous ways of making snap judgments about people (I know I'm guilty of using journal names and icons) that probably have little reflection on the quality of a person's writing.
*nods* It's so easy to do, but can be so stupid. That's one of the reason metafandom scares me. Like the first time I was linked there, it was for an entry about racism. A lot of people came over and called me stupid for that, and I'm sure they walked away from it thinking I was a racist bitch. But for me, when I post about meta, it's generally just a first thought for me. I'm always open to conversation and what I say in the post might not be what I believe in a week after discussion. I know that I feel very differently about that post now, almost 3 years later. However there are people who aren't going to take that into consideration. They're just going to remember me for that one post. I know that I do that sometimes to people I see in the meta circles.
But yes, when it comes to writing, if you show up at someone's journal and it's in eye bleeding colours with bad photo manips it's easy to think that their fic will be bad before you even see it.
God, I just can't shut up, continued below....
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I do that sometimes, although worse is when I conflait two stories of a similar theme.
Dude, I wish you would vid more! *is totally a follower*
Aww, thanks. Did you know I'm making a vidding computer? *bounces* A friend of my dad is going to pick it up next week and finish putting it together for me. It's going to have a quad processor and 8GBs of RAM, a 1TB hard drive and a dedicated memory card. *iz excited*
Right now my laptop won't even let me vid. I did something funky to it and now none of the vidding programs will work :( Which sucks since I've gotten a couple really great vid ideas in the past couple months.
Also, kronos999, one of my room mates, is currently creating a program that'll really change the way I vid. It'll let you tag an episode as you watch it at certain parts, that way later when you want a scene of John and Rodney looking slashy, you can check your tags and pull up all the McShep ones. Or can't remember which episodes the Genii were in? Check your tag database. It'll be *awesome* since one of the hardest things about vidding is finding the clips. I think the reason why I have never vidded as much as I did in the QaF fandom is because I watched that source material over and over again before I discovered fanfic. Now whenever I watch shows I generally watch the episodes once which makes it really hard to find things later when I'm vidding.
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