I had always thought that the posters of a log should get the credit--because it's the same as the poster of an entry in the main comm. In joint posts both posters get credit an in joint logs both posters get credit. I never saw as having commentors to an entry as need for adding a character tag to an entry--so I never really understood why people who didn't post a log in the comm would add their character tag to it. It's not their entry after all.
All comments to all posts should get credit I agree, but I don't see why adding a character tag when you comment to a log equals a post when we don't do the same thing in the main comm?
I'll admit right now that I am not in charge of AC and I do not participate monthly in the checks. This is just my two cents as a player--ever since I joined in 2009 this is how I thought things were done.
But obviously other people have interpreted things differently than me so I wanna ask: what do you think counts as a post? Specifically for logs--what's different about a comment to an entry and a comment to a log? Why should a comment to a log (when it's open, not a joint log) count as more AC than a comment to an entry? Or if it even does at all! I wanna know what you think :o
I personally like finding logs that characters have been in, because they tend to be more involved and prose-based. (Not all the logs in para are like this, but generally they do result in longer responses than the average post to the main community.) I know I've gone searching for tags of characters in logs just to read everything they've done to get more insight on their character, so I don't think that should change.
It's harder to do a drive-by log response, in other words. Also, I usually do a log with just one other person as they tend to be easier to do than multiple-character logs... and in most cases the person who puts up the log is a toss up. It doesn't matter to me who starts it, because we planned it out together.
There's no perfect system where AC is concerned as there's always going to be different opinions on what counts as 'active', but to me... the only way a log tag shouldn't count as much as a post tag, is if they were tagged in the log and never actually posted in it.
I agree that log tags and post tags should be equal--but in the main comm tags are only used for the poster(s) of a post and not...whoever comments. So I'm confused as to why people are doing that for the log comm and going "well I tagged 3 times into this log, so that should count as my character posting once for the month."
Probably because people can post in the main comm with a much shorter post and not reply to their comments and have it count for the month? Also those three log tags could be several paragraphs long... Like how this one counted when we posted it for both of us. We planned that log together, and even though it was three comments each, it was a joint effort and both deserved to be tagged for it.
Aaah--I get it! :) Though we DO keep track of people who drop threads/don't reply/constantly post private entries and they do get penalties down the road so don't worry about that part♥ Those sorts of things are tracked and recorded.
I guess the big worry I have is that if we count all characters in a log for having a post AC-wise it makes squatting incredibly easy (see here). I HAVE GOOD HTML
I haven't really noticed that occurring in the logs comm, so maybe I need to look at it more closely. In theory, you're right, it would be very easy to tag a log and only reply with a couple of sentences. But has that happened?
If it does seem to be a problem, I can see coming up with additional guidelines. Usually in those cases, it will be brought up with the player/on HMD when it's spotted, so I'm not sure if it's necessary to make the AC more complicated... I'll have to see if anyone has been doing this, though! If it was a constant happening, I'd totally agree with you, I just haven't seen it.
It...has, actually! We have had one person add their character tag to an entry they didn't even comment to, and we've had someone reply to a log only once and then drop the thread ): which is why making comments in logs = 1 post worries me!
Mind you these are only two cases but it's still something. It's not constant but both cases have been in the last 2 months.
In that case, I definitely think if the person doesn't reply AT ALL to a log that they were tagged in, it shouldn't count towards activity. In cases where it's one reply that isn't very long, that gets a little dicey too...
I can see why mods wouldn't want to look through every log to see who commented, but wouldn't it be easy to see from the number of comments if that needed to be looked into? (Two or three comments might be worth opening to see how long those comments were?) Maybe that's an easier way for it to be handled.
I know that it's a hard thing to gauge, but hopefully there's a way to do it that won't be too much of a headache for anyone.
yeah :) I agree if it's only a few comments def. look into it! But I mean for a log with 4-5 people and only seeing something like 15 comments it becomes somewhat of a trick--do we look to make sure everyone actually did something or just pass all of them, even if 1 person never commented/only commented once or twice.
I agree with your last statement too! I want to find that glorious middle ground that makes everything better.
You could probably tell by the number of people + number of comments if it's something that should be looked at... and even then, maybe when posting the AC there could be a little asterisk that notes that although they were tagged in a log, it was not sufficient judge of activity and more threads are requested. I'd only use that in cases where it was extremely lacking though, like your example earlier.
It's a good thing to discuss! It becomes kind of a sensitive subject a lot of times, but I've always appreciated that Para keeps up with activity checks. I've been in games that let their players get away with months of inactivity, so I'm glad that there are efforts being made. I think any adjustments needed are minor and should be able to be reached in compromise.
Regardless of who posts the log or the entry, if a character is involved in some way with the contents of that log/entry, they should get credit for it. And as far as tagging a character's name onto an entry/log, this is how i have always seen it:
- If players A & B have their characters on a log, then both characters have their names tagged onto the log. The same applies for a joint post.
- If there is an event post going on, such as a wedding, a party, a battle plot, an open log, etc., players have always tagged their characters' names onto the post. There was never any rule to the contrary to not do that, and there was never any discussion up until now about whether or not it was a good or bad idea to do it.
A comment to a log takes much more thought and work on a player's part than a comment to an entry does. Players A and B could have threaded a 100+ comment thread with no more than four to five lines of text in each comment (and majority of the time, comments in an entry are one- or two-liners), and of course the collapsed thread makes it seem like more went on within the thread. Meanwhile, Players C & D are busting out four to five lines minimum of text for their log. Third-person logs take more thought and effort, because some players really want to capture the feeling of how their characters are feeling then and there, plus incorporate actions and speech into that log, while first-person threads are instant and observers can understand the tone of the thread with a snap of their fingers.
So counting that both comments to a log and comments to a post should count as AC, why should comments to a log count as "one post for the month" while comments to an entry not? Or do you think that both should count as "posts for the month"?
Right now whoever participates in a log/entry has that count for over all AC. But commenting to an entry (when it isn't joint) does not count as a character having an entry, which is why they wind up on the thread count posts. I assumed having a character comment to a log (when it isn't joint) wouldn't count for a post either!
It sounds like you, the mods, are the ones pushing for a change here when the players seem fine with things as they have been. What is the sudden push for change when in past how's the game posts, you have all decided against activity policy change when it was brought up by players? It seems very out of left field and weird to me. Also, I am not entirely comfortable with the way you ask us for our opinions here and then bombard us with things like "so why should that comment count and not this one?" Maybe I am reading into it but it comes off as strong arming to me in a way.
I just want to say again--I didn't mean to enforce this as a change. I thought things had always been like this since I joined the game back in 2009 so for me this has been the reality of my stay in Paradisa. I've admitted I've never done AC nor do I participate in monitoring it so I haven't...actually seen how it gets done! But from how I read that rules that's what I thought happened.
As far as strong arming goes--I don't actually know what that means--I'm just asking those sorts of questions because in my head it doesn't seem logical or make sense ): I don't understand what I'm reading. I'm sorry if it comes off like that--I wasn't meant to be. I just genuinely do not understand some of what people are saying and I wanted better clarification.
I appreciate that, and I'm sorry for accusing but it's just coming off like ... you are the ones who suddenly want this change/are questioning the way that AC has been done, and now you are arguing your points to try and get people to see it your way versus taking our input and leaving it at that. This is just the way that it came off to me and I am assuming so I could be wrong but I wanted to put it out there in case anyone felt the same or you weren't aware. But I will take you at your word because I don't think you are purposefully trying to influence people's decisions and instead are trying to get some input on their reasoning.
Yeah--and I'm honestly sorry if it came off like that. I will go 100% with whatever the majority wants and I would never want to just ignore everyone in favor of my own opinion/ideas. It didn't feel like you were accusing at all either♥ So please don't worry about that. It's best to get the full picture than make assumptions and infer!
I don't want to step on anyone's opinions so thanks♥ I am going to try phrasing things a little more differently here now :)
All comments to all posts should get credit I agree, but I don't see why adding a character tag when you comment to a log equals a post when we don't do the same thing in the main comm?
I'll admit right now that I am not in charge of AC and I do not participate monthly in the checks. This is just my two cents as a player--ever since I joined in 2009 this is how I thought things were done.
But obviously other people have interpreted things differently than me so I wanna ask: what do you think counts as a post? Specifically for logs--what's different about a comment to an entry and a comment to a log? Why should a comment to a log (when it's open, not a joint log) count as more AC than a comment to an entry? Or if it even does at all! I wanna know what you think :o
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It's harder to do a drive-by log response, in other words. Also, I usually do a log with just one other person as they tend to be easier to do than multiple-character logs... and in most cases the person who puts up the log is a toss up. It doesn't matter to me who starts it, because we planned it out together.
There's no perfect system where AC is concerned as there's always going to be different opinions on what counts as 'active', but to me... the only way a log tag shouldn't count as much as a post tag, is if they were tagged in the log and never actually posted in it.
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That's my opinion, anyway!
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I guess the big worry I have is that if we count all characters in a log for having a post AC-wise it makes squatting incredibly easy (see here). I HAVE GOOD HTML
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If it does seem to be a problem, I can see coming up with additional guidelines. Usually in those cases, it will be brought up with the player/on HMD when it's spotted, so I'm not sure if it's necessary to make the AC more complicated... I'll have to see if anyone has been doing this, though! If it was a constant happening, I'd totally agree with you, I just haven't seen it.
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Mind you these are only two cases but it's still something. It's not constant but both cases have been in the last 2 months.
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I can see why mods wouldn't want to look through every log to see who commented, but wouldn't it be easy to see from the number of comments if that needed to be looked into? (Two or three comments might be worth opening to see how long those comments were?) Maybe that's an easier way for it to be handled.
I know that it's a hard thing to gauge, but hopefully there's a way to do it that won't be too much of a headache for anyone.
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I agree with your last statement too! I want to find that glorious middle ground that makes everything better.
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It's a good thing to discuss! It becomes kind of a sensitive subject a lot of times, but I've always appreciated that Para keeps up with activity checks. I've been in games that let their players get away with months of inactivity, so I'm glad that there are efforts being made. I think any adjustments needed are minor and should be able to be reached in compromise.
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- If players A & B have their characters on a log, then both characters have their names tagged onto the log. The same applies for a joint post.
- If there is an event post going on, such as a wedding, a party, a battle plot, an open log, etc., players have always tagged their characters' names onto the post. There was never any rule to the contrary to not do that, and there was never any discussion up until now about whether or not it was a good or bad idea to do it.
A comment to a log takes much more thought and work on a player's part than a comment to an entry does. Players A and B could have threaded a 100+ comment thread with no more than four to five lines of text in each comment (and majority of the time, comments in an entry are one- or two-liners), and of course the collapsed thread makes it seem like more went on within the thread. Meanwhile, Players C & D are busting out four to five lines minimum of text for their log. Third-person logs take more thought and effort, because some players really want to capture the feeling of how their characters are feeling then and there, plus incorporate actions and speech into that log, while first-person threads are instant and observers can understand the tone of the thread with a snap of their fingers.
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Right now whoever participates in a log/entry has that count for over all AC. But commenting to an entry (when it isn't joint) does not count as a character having an entry, which is why they wind up on the thread count posts. I assumed having a character comment to a log (when it isn't joint) wouldn't count for a post either!
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As far as strong arming goes--I don't actually know what that means--I'm just asking those sorts of questions because in my head it doesn't seem logical or make sense ): I don't understand what I'm reading. I'm sorry if it comes off like that--I wasn't meant to be. I just genuinely do not understand some of what people are saying and I wanted better clarification.
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I don't want to step on anyone's opinions so thanks♥ I am going to try phrasing things a little more differently here now :)
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