YJ Rant and Squee
So, I've recently watched the new 'Young Justice' cartoon, the first two episodes. I loved the comics that they were named after (although not entirely based on), and I am now completely squee in love with this too. I was a little worried and dissapointed that they seemed to change some things, but then I watched it. And I'm in love.
But I'm still seeing a lot of guff over the Robin/Kid Flash thing, (namely, which ones they used) so I thought I'd give my take on it.
A lot of people are upset that they are using Dick Grayson for Robin and Wally for Kid Flash, instead of Tim and Bart (who were in the young justice comics). But I can see where the creators are coming from. This is supposed to be a young DC universe, ergo using the original sidekicks. I've heard some comments saying: "Then why didn't they use Garth as Aqualad? If they can change Aqualad then why not Rob and KF?"
Well, because their backstories wouldn't fit. This is supposed to be a young DC universe, and it's supposed to feel like these kids are taking steps never taken before. This is the first batch of 'sidekicks' (for lack of a better word), and they are all just starting to grow up. You can say that Aqualad was just born earlier in the continuity and Aquaman took him on as a partner instead of Garth. That's easy. But if you had Bart instead of Wally, that would have to mean that
A: Barry is already dead and Wally is already Flash
B: Barry was never Flash, and like in the JLA cartoons, Wally is the first Flash
C: Barry is Flash and there is no Wally.
D: Barry is Flash and for some reason, there are two junior speedsters running around.
A wouldn't work because, as I said earlier, this is supposed to be the beginning. When the first kids are just stepping out of their mentors shadows for the first time. If Barry was already dead and Wally already taken up The Flash mantle, that would completely negate this premise, because he had done it first. What the YJ kids were doing wouldn't be anything new.
So if we counter this by saying, well, in the DCAU, Wally was the first Flash, Barry is never mentioned, as in B, that means that Wally never was a sidekick, so it doesn't interfere with the premise. That works right? No. It doesn't make sense because Bart is Barry's grandson from the future. No Barry, no Bart. We could change it by making his Wally's relative, but now we're stretching. And the show seems to be trying not to cut people out (The creators have said that Garth exists, and will show up). So why would they cut out Barry?
I suppose C could work, but that would make me sad. Wouldn't that make you sad? And, like I said above, they seem to be trying not to erase people.
So why not just have both? Because that would be confusing. Especially to viewers who don't read comics. It would work if you had an episode to set it up, but not straight off the bat. And there's another thing. Making Wally KF does NOT close the door for having Bart appear later. He might become a big character even, ALONG with Wally. But Having Bart as the main speedster, as I pointed out, kind of closes the door on Wally.
So, Robin now. I think it's a good thing they used Dick. If they had used Tim, it would be a disservice to the characters of Dick and Tim. And Bruce, actually. Because Tim as Robin Would have to mean that,
A: Dick is already Nightwing
or
B: Tim was the first Robin
Now, I have a real problem with A because the show has stated that the sidekicks only started showing up a few years ago, with Robin being he most experienced at four years on the job. Even if you stretched it out a little, that still means that Batman took in, trained, then fell out with Dick, then found and trained a new robin in a horrifically short amount of time. Like, that man should be in jail. But okay, they said that Batman showed up around nine years ago, what if Dick came in at say, year two. Let's keep his starting age at nine, that would mean he's seventeen in the show's timeline. maybe he left at fifteen or sixteen, and this Robin has only been around a year or two (This would mean that Jason would have to be erased). That still has the problem that point A of the Flash argument does. It cheapens the entire point they are going for.
Now, B takes so much away from all the characters. Dick was THE junior partner. All others came after. In canon and in reality too, introduced in 1940, he was the first. To take that away from him would be sad, he influenced the others so much, and I think the show is going to play with that. Also, Tim became Robin because of Dick. Without Dick, he had no reason to be interested in the Batman. Even if you went the BTAS way and put his fixation on Batman, the amazing thing about Tim is that he chose to become Robin, not out of any grief or personal tragedy (at least at first) but because he thought he would do some good in it. While this is what makes Tim so awesome, I don't think Batman would let someone in without the shared history of tragedy unless someone had already done it. If he did, it would by wildly OOC I think. And let's be honest here, if there was no previous Robin, would Tim actually think "Well, I better dress up in tights to go help Batman now!" even if his fixation was on Batman? And if you changed it so that he was orphaned, so that Batman would be more open to it, well, that would take away from everything that makes Tim so awesome. Where would be the point? You'd have Dick or even a younger Bruce with the name Tim attached.
So yeah, I love Tim, and that is part of the reason why I agree with their decision to make Robin Dick. And I know some people are tired of Dick, but you also have to think of it from the point of view of someone who doesn't read comics. Most people only know about the first Robin. To have someone else be Robin with no explanation as to where the hell Dick Grayson is would be confusing. And as I said above, they can always bring Tim in as a character later, like in BTAS. And I know that a lot of people are going "But we already had Dick in Toon Titans!" Well... no we didn't.
Don't get me wrong, I loved TT Robin, but he was Dick Grayson in name only. As the creators of TT have said, he's more like a composite character of all of the Robins. Sure he has Dick's name, backstory, and obsessive tendencies, but he has Jason's temper and competitiveness, and Tim's analyticalness and physical contact issues. (And, y'know, Steph's weirdspikeyhair *COUGH*). He's great, but he has none of the ...effusiveness or optimism or dorky glee that is quintessential Dick Grayson. He, quite frankly, doesn't have the stage presence. Which Toon YJ Robin seems to have. So Yeah. I'm happy.
I still miss Tim, but I have a feeling he's perfectly happy in this universe. Why? Because he get's to stalk Dick and Kon. Yes. Won't that be lovely? He can take pictures of them fighting ~together~. And if he ever met them (in some disaster which Robin would save him from ~OOOH~) he would take a photo and Robin would snicker and say that the kid has a crush on you, SB, and I'm sure that that's cradle robbing somehow, but I'm not quite sure who's the robber and SB will scowl uncomfortably when Robin tells him not to tell Aqualad, because he might get jealous, and of course COMPLETELY fails to notice that the kid adores him, too.
I'm thinking of doing a minicomic series of Tim in this universe. That would be amazing. The theme song would be 'Stalker-Tim' set to the old Spider-man theme music.
Rant Over!
PS: More YJ squee: Kid Flash and Robin are soo going to be the type to freak out majorly over each others safety aren't they. **LOVES**
But I'm still seeing a lot of guff over the Robin/Kid Flash thing, (namely, which ones they used) so I thought I'd give my take on it.
A lot of people are upset that they are using Dick Grayson for Robin and Wally for Kid Flash, instead of Tim and Bart (who were in the young justice comics). But I can see where the creators are coming from. This is supposed to be a young DC universe, ergo using the original sidekicks. I've heard some comments saying: "Then why didn't they use Garth as Aqualad? If they can change Aqualad then why not Rob and KF?"
Well, because their backstories wouldn't fit. This is supposed to be a young DC universe, and it's supposed to feel like these kids are taking steps never taken before. This is the first batch of 'sidekicks' (for lack of a better word), and they are all just starting to grow up. You can say that Aqualad was just born earlier in the continuity and Aquaman took him on as a partner instead of Garth. That's easy. But if you had Bart instead of Wally, that would have to mean that
A: Barry is already dead and Wally is already Flash
B: Barry was never Flash, and like in the JLA cartoons, Wally is the first Flash
C: Barry is Flash and there is no Wally.
D: Barry is Flash and for some reason, there are two junior speedsters running around.
A wouldn't work because, as I said earlier, this is supposed to be the beginning. When the first kids are just stepping out of their mentors shadows for the first time. If Barry was already dead and Wally already taken up The Flash mantle, that would completely negate this premise, because he had done it first. What the YJ kids were doing wouldn't be anything new.
So if we counter this by saying, well, in the DCAU, Wally was the first Flash, Barry is never mentioned, as in B, that means that Wally never was a sidekick, so it doesn't interfere with the premise. That works right? No. It doesn't make sense because Bart is Barry's grandson from the future. No Barry, no Bart. We could change it by making his Wally's relative, but now we're stretching. And the show seems to be trying not to cut people out (The creators have said that Garth exists, and will show up). So why would they cut out Barry?
I suppose C could work, but that would make me sad. Wouldn't that make you sad? And, like I said above, they seem to be trying not to erase people.
So why not just have both? Because that would be confusing. Especially to viewers who don't read comics. It would work if you had an episode to set it up, but not straight off the bat. And there's another thing. Making Wally KF does NOT close the door for having Bart appear later. He might become a big character even, ALONG with Wally. But Having Bart as the main speedster, as I pointed out, kind of closes the door on Wally.
So, Robin now. I think it's a good thing they used Dick. If they had used Tim, it would be a disservice to the characters of Dick and Tim. And Bruce, actually. Because Tim as Robin Would have to mean that,
A: Dick is already Nightwing
or
B: Tim was the first Robin
Now, I have a real problem with A because the show has stated that the sidekicks only started showing up a few years ago, with Robin being he most experienced at four years on the job. Even if you stretched it out a little, that still means that Batman took in, trained, then fell out with Dick, then found and trained a new robin in a horrifically short amount of time. Like, that man should be in jail. But okay, they said that Batman showed up around nine years ago, what if Dick came in at say, year two. Let's keep his starting age at nine, that would mean he's seventeen in the show's timeline. maybe he left at fifteen or sixteen, and this Robin has only been around a year or two (This would mean that Jason would have to be erased). That still has the problem that point A of the Flash argument does. It cheapens the entire point they are going for.
Now, B takes so much away from all the characters. Dick was THE junior partner. All others came after. In canon and in reality too, introduced in 1940, he was the first. To take that away from him would be sad, he influenced the others so much, and I think the show is going to play with that. Also, Tim became Robin because of Dick. Without Dick, he had no reason to be interested in the Batman. Even if you went the BTAS way and put his fixation on Batman, the amazing thing about Tim is that he chose to become Robin, not out of any grief or personal tragedy (at least at first) but because he thought he would do some good in it. While this is what makes Tim so awesome, I don't think Batman would let someone in without the shared history of tragedy unless someone had already done it. If he did, it would by wildly OOC I think. And let's be honest here, if there was no previous Robin, would Tim actually think "Well, I better dress up in tights to go help Batman now!" even if his fixation was on Batman? And if you changed it so that he was orphaned, so that Batman would be more open to it, well, that would take away from everything that makes Tim so awesome. Where would be the point? You'd have Dick or even a younger Bruce with the name Tim attached.
So yeah, I love Tim, and that is part of the reason why I agree with their decision to make Robin Dick. And I know some people are tired of Dick, but you also have to think of it from the point of view of someone who doesn't read comics. Most people only know about the first Robin. To have someone else be Robin with no explanation as to where the hell Dick Grayson is would be confusing. And as I said above, they can always bring Tim in as a character later, like in BTAS. And I know that a lot of people are going "But we already had Dick in Toon Titans!" Well... no we didn't.
Don't get me wrong, I loved TT Robin, but he was Dick Grayson in name only. As the creators of TT have said, he's more like a composite character of all of the Robins. Sure he has Dick's name, backstory, and obsessive tendencies, but he has Jason's temper and competitiveness, and Tim's analyticalness and physical contact issues. (And, y'know, Steph's weirdspikeyhair *COUGH*). He's great, but he has none of the ...effusiveness or optimism or dorky glee that is quintessential Dick Grayson. He, quite frankly, doesn't have the stage presence. Which Toon YJ Robin seems to have. So Yeah. I'm happy.
I still miss Tim, but I have a feeling he's perfectly happy in this universe. Why? Because he get's to stalk Dick and Kon. Yes. Won't that be lovely? He can take pictures of them fighting ~together~. And if he ever met them (in some disaster which Robin would save him from ~OOOH~) he would take a photo and Robin would snicker and say that the kid has a crush on you, SB, and I'm sure that that's cradle robbing somehow, but I'm not quite sure who's the robber and SB will scowl uncomfortably when Robin tells him not to tell Aqualad, because he might get jealous, and of course COMPLETELY fails to notice that the kid adores him, too.
I'm thinking of doing a minicomic series of Tim in this universe. That would be amazing. The theme song would be 'Stalker-Tim' set to the old Spider-man theme music.
Rant Over!
PS: More YJ squee: Kid Flash and Robin are soo going to be the type to freak out majorly over each others safety aren't they. **LOVES**