I kind of think they were buddies/partners between '66-75, as much as you could be buddies with Ror. I liked JEH's theory that Ror appreciates Dan more than he appreciates Ror; Dan probably feels really distant from Ror because Ror doesn't tell him anything about himself, but on the split side, Ror's never felt so close to anyone before and considers Dan to be the closest thing to a companion. Yet Ror retains a professional sensibility of never revealing his name or any other personal information. I'd like to think that Dan at some point realizes that he's the only thing that Ror really has as a friend, but you can only speculate about that. (For instance, I think Dan always thinks he's on tenterhooks, like if he says the wrong thing with Ror that he might get angry and leave (like he can't joke or tease Ror at all, something that would be fairly normal in a friendship for Dan), while Ror is totally chill and thinks there's nothing wrong with their partnership whatsoever. That kind of thing going.)
I think they only start to really drift after the dog's split head incident. I suspect Ror got more violent with criminals and even MORE distant socially, just kind of off the deep-end. I think Rorschach always maintained a firm line of professionalism with Daniel, so Dan had no idea what the hell was going on with his partner the whole time, and had even less of an idea. I think Dan definitely would notice a different by this time, though, after working with him for so long. And Ror would just be considering Dan less--maybe thinking he was too weak. But I think Ror's thought process changing has a lot less to do with how he thinks of Dan, and any drift would just be on Dan's half of the relationship (feeling like he's lost what little understand he had of Ror).
I kind of think they were on unsteady grounds by the time the Keene Act was rolling around--maybe separated as partners, but with no real catalyst. It was just inevitable. Ror sort of forgetting about him or Dan just avoiding Ror--one or the other, or both.
Of course this is all theory since we get very little idea from the GN--I'm basing this mostly on their present interactions within the GN.
I think he kind of used it against the psychologist, though. Sort of like "You want the full story? Heh, YOU ASKED FOR IT." I think he predicted at least somewhat how the psychologist would react. He wanted him to realize it's a fucked up world, no matter what fancy college degrees you may have on your belt.
And in that sense, maybe he wanted to protect Dan from that knowledge. It's pretty disturbing shit.
It's likely that Rorschach drifted off track socially and professionally after the Roche incident in '75. And that seems to be the consensus around here, but maybe during this hard change for his partner, maybe Daniel tried to help Rorschach, knowing full and well what happened with the Roche case? Maybe he tried to support him the best he could, then considering Rorschach's powerful personality and unyielding pursuit for justice, whatever that may be to him, Daniel found that there was no longer common ground between them (common ground being their vigilante practices), and gave up? Maybe it was Daniel's lack of devotion to Rorschach that caused him to finally drift out of their friendship.
It's likely Rorschach saw Daniel as weak when dealing with the criminals after the Roshe case, but Daniel also meant something to Rorschach. Something strong enough for him to keep that grappling hook for 20 years.
So maybe it wasn't Rorschach at all, but it was Daniel's fault the entire way.
Just some food for thought.
Anyway, I didn't mean to pick on this post in particular, because you really make your case well. It just seemed that a lot of people were going down the same track, and I couldn't find a specific place to put this little 10 cents. <3
Tbh, I don't think Daniel knows what happened with the Roche case. He wasn't there at the time, and I really can't see Rorschach telling him any horrific details. At MOST, maybe Rorschach came to him on that night--maybe. I sort of doubt it, though. But even if he did, all Dan would see was Rorschach covered in blood and being more psychotic than usual, which wouldn't tell him a whole lot.
You make an interesting point though. I'm pretty hard on Daniel, to be honest--WELL, not **hard** necessarily, but I see him as being very normal. Like more normal than any of the other Watchmen cast, definitely, and not as understanding as some people like him to be--just a normal man. And being normal, I can't see him feeling confident that he knows Rorschach. I think he definitely DOES know Rorschach better than anyone else, but it's not on a level where Dan realizes he does, because it's not a normal relationship, which is all that Dan is used to. I think eventually Dan DOES learn that he's pretty much Rorschach's only friend and that he knows him better than anyone else does, but to him there's still an acute sense of mystery about Rorschach's motivations and past, which is sometimes essential to really understanding someone front and back. Basically Dan knows Rorschach best out of anyone, but that doesn't mean he knows the full story.
So I pin the break up drift in the partnership more on lack of communication than anything. Rorschach starts acting funnier than usual, Dan doesn't have any idea why or how to even approach Rorschach about it (who's even more antisocial than before, possibly) and eventually they lose their sense of understanding of one another (if Dan ever had it, which I do think he did at some point)--and tensions only rise when the Keene Act approaches.
I think if anything Dan didn't want to give up on Rorschach. I see him as being pretty stubborn and sentimental as well--he did work with the guy for years before the Roche case, after all, so he had to get attached to the little nut. But there had to be a point where he gave up, because he just couldn't understand the change in Rorschach.
I'd agree for the most part, but there is a part in the GN during the Keene Riot between The Comedian and Daniel where The Comedian asks Daniel about Rorschach. Daniel tells him that Rorschach has been working on his own lately, and The Comedian comments "Rorschach's -nuts-. He's been nuts ever since that -kidnapping- he handled three years back." That makes me think that they all knew about it, because during 75, the masks were more glorified than frowned upon. I doubt Rorschach's actions went unnoticed by both the other masks and the press.
It became common knowledge to the public that he killed that guy. ><
Poor Rorschach. He just needs some soup and a blanket. <3
I think they only start to really drift after the dog's split head incident. I suspect Ror got more violent with criminals and even MORE distant socially, just kind of off the deep-end. I think Rorschach always maintained a firm line of professionalism with Daniel, so Dan had no idea what the hell was going on with his partner the whole time, and had even less of an idea. I think Dan definitely would notice a different by this time, though, after working with him for so long. And Ror would just be considering Dan less--maybe thinking he was too weak. But I think Ror's thought process changing has a lot less to do with how he thinks of Dan, and any drift would just be on Dan's half of the relationship (feeling like he's lost what little understand he had of Ror).
I kind of think they were on unsteady grounds by the time the Keene Act was rolling around--maybe separated as partners, but with no real catalyst. It was just inevitable. Ror sort of forgetting about him or Dan just avoiding Ror--one or the other, or both.
Of course this is all theory since we get very little idea from the GN--I'm basing this mostly on their present interactions within the GN.
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And in that sense, maybe he wanted to protect Dan from that knowledge. It's pretty disturbing shit.
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It's likely Rorschach saw Daniel as weak when dealing with the criminals after the Roshe case, but Daniel also meant something to Rorschach. Something strong enough for him to keep that grappling hook for 20 years.
So maybe it wasn't Rorschach at all, but it was Daniel's fault the entire way.
Just some food for thought.
Anyway, I didn't mean to pick on this post in particular, because you really make your case well. It just seemed that a lot of people were going down the same track, and I couldn't find a specific place to put this little 10 cents. <3
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You make an interesting point though. I'm pretty hard on Daniel, to be honest--WELL, not **hard** necessarily, but I see him as being very normal. Like more normal than any of the other Watchmen cast, definitely, and not as understanding as some people like him to be--just a normal man. And being normal, I can't see him feeling confident that he knows Rorschach. I think he definitely DOES know Rorschach better than anyone else, but it's not on a level where Dan realizes he does, because it's not a normal relationship, which is all that Dan is used to. I think eventually Dan DOES learn that he's pretty much Rorschach's only friend and that he knows him better than anyone else does, but to him there's still an acute sense of mystery about Rorschach's motivations and past, which is sometimes essential to really understanding someone front and back. Basically Dan knows Rorschach best out of anyone, but that doesn't mean he knows the full story.
So I pin the break up drift in the partnership more on lack of communication than anything. Rorschach starts acting funnier than usual, Dan doesn't have any idea why or how to even approach Rorschach about it (who's even more antisocial than before, possibly) and eventually they lose their sense of understanding of one another (if Dan ever had it, which I do think he did at some point)--and tensions only rise when the Keene Act approaches.
I think if anything Dan didn't want to give up on Rorschach. I see him as being pretty stubborn and sentimental as well--he did work with the guy for years before the Roche case, after all, so he had to get attached to the little nut. But there had to be a point where he gave up, because he just couldn't understand the change in Rorschach.
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It became common knowledge to the public that he killed that guy. ><
Poor Rorschach. He just needs some soup and a blanket. <3
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