The other part is a little more complicated in my head! Especially since Cielo's whole schtick is supporting his comrades. But I think what it comes down to is...Man the Saiyuki parallels are in my head and they won't go away.
What it basically comes down to is the fact that while Cielo will do his best to help his comrades and support them, he at the same acknowledges that, well, everyone has their own karma! And comrades can help in bearing the burden, but they can't bear the burden for you. (Sera is where he comes closest to forgetting this, but that's not really the point here.) And someone who devours his own comrades... either he doesn't deserve help bearing his karmic burden, or he is highly unlikely to ever find comrades again that will help him bear his burden, and I'm not entirely sure which he's going for there. I think it's the first, but I don't think the second should be ignored entirely.
Cielo himself tends to bear his own karma without asking much help from his comrades, or even admitting the problem. A lot of it is because, well, they have lots of karma to bear already and he can see that and Argilla and Heat and Sera in particular are close to breaking under the load. So for Cielo to add to their burden with his, when he isn't breaking under his load, wouldn't be something he'd do. I can actually see him going to Gale when he's upset (although probably be vague about the details because I imagine keeping a secret within the Embryon once two of them know about it would be very iffy), although probably not Serph for the aforementioned past life carryover issues. But so for him to encounter someone who has imposed his own karmic burden on his comrades to the degree that he ate them (willingly or not, it's never made explicit. I can actually see either, although I think him devouring them unwillingly is more likely), that would piss Cielo off beyond measure because it's so far against his thing of sharing only the burdens they can bear.
Man I talk a lot. I hope that wasn't completely incoherent XD
One other think that always struck me as interesting, and kind of ties into all of this, is Cielo's comments/views on devouring throughout DDS2. From his defensive comments in the underground city about how regular humans still destroy other forms of life for their own sustenance, to the ones post-Abbadon about how people really can't seem to live without the sacrifices of others.
I've started to wonder how much, if at all, it'd tie into previous-Cielo's situation and world views, especially given how the Shaman candidates were essentially sacrificed for the (relative) good of humanity. I wouldn't be able to say if it were programmed into the AI or picked up from personal resonance with his former self, but the.... resentment? Has always struck an odd chord. That he and his tribe would be singled out and reviled for their 'selfish' behaviour among the Lokapala, without half a thought being given to how the Lokapala themselves use their environment. Likewise with the moment on the other end of the scale -- that if people can't live without the sacrifices of others, he wants to give something back, though the 'what' is left unspecified. Both seem odd from someone who is nearly always putting forward the minimizing, easygoing face.
(Side tangent: he really doesn't ask for a lot back, ever, does he. Even back at the beginning, it's not 'help, Gale's going to eat me'. It's 'hey, that's Gale. Thought you should know'.)
(Tangent the second: speaking of predestination, it's notable that the path that brought Seraph to where s/he is was made by the same bodies, twice over. Gotta wonder how much forgetting his laser that one time was the force of the plot, and how much was just the realization of his own immutable cycle. Varin's "How many times do you have to die for that girl!" kinda echoes.)
I could definitely see Cielo going to Gale as well, if he ever did want to talk about such things. Leaving aside that the two of them seem to grow noticeably close over the course of the last few dungeons, both have... an extra step of separation. Though I imagine Cielo's weights would be about as easy to talk about as Gale's memories of Angel -- which is to say, not at all.
Man that's a really good point. I think I'm going to have to rewrite his past life backstory now, because now that you've pointed that out, I would be willing to bet a decent amount of money that Cielo in his past life had a parent/guardian of some sort (probably the last ones before he got handed over to the Cyber Shaman testing) who felt burdened by him and guilt tripped him about, well, existing. Because that mix of resentment/acceptance just really seems like the kinda thing that got started there. Especially with his habit of smiling and letting it pass over him, because there's few things more futile for kids to fight than their guardians. So smiling through the bad stuff would both inconvenience his guardian less and cause him less grief.
That's a good point too. I'm guessing that that has to do with the cycle of karma, and how as long as you are stuck in the illusion you're doomed to keep repeating the cycle. I can easily see that Cielo as being relatively close to enlightenment but not there yet, as being capable of seeing that kind of thing, but not capable of understanding that it can be broken free of. Cielo kinda has a fatalistic streak. I...suddenly want to tangent on Gandhi and why I think saints tend to be fucked in the head, but that has very little to do with this I think XD
...Fic of that would be awesome. There's a lot of similar issues there, as I'm guessing one of the issues Gale struggles with in regards to Angel is feeling like he's betraying his tribe for caring about her. While one of the reasons Cielo's repressed any memory he has of Sheffield is because he feels like it's a betrayal of Serph to think like that.
While I'm thinking of it, one of the things that interests me about the Embryon as a whole is that for a tribe as close as they all are...they really don't confide in each other a whole bunch. I mean, Cielo and Gale are obviously a little distant each in their very opposite ways, but the rest of them do it too. Heat never tells anyone about kissing Sera or even admits to being sad about it really. Argilla comes closer, but she never tells anyone about what happened about Bat. She has a nervous breakdown, but she never comes out and says what happened. Serph...yeah the idea of him confiding anything is slightly absurd XD. They're always big on the "We're comrades, nothing else is important" which...is usually true! But occasionally comes back to bite them [coughHEATcough] I dunno, I find that interesting.
What it basically comes down to is the fact that while Cielo will do his best to help his comrades and support them, he at the same acknowledges that, well, everyone has their own karma! And comrades can help in bearing the burden, but they can't bear the burden for you. (Sera is where he comes closest to forgetting this, but that's not really the point here.) And someone who devours his own comrades... either he doesn't deserve help bearing his karmic burden, or he is highly unlikely to ever find comrades again that will help him bear his burden, and I'm not entirely sure which he's going for there. I think it's the first, but I don't think the second should be ignored entirely.
Cielo himself tends to bear his own karma without asking much help from his comrades, or even admitting the problem. A lot of it is because, well, they have lots of karma to bear already and he can see that and Argilla and Heat and Sera in particular are close to breaking under the load. So for Cielo to add to their burden with his, when he isn't breaking under his load, wouldn't be something he'd do. I can actually see him going to Gale when he's upset (although probably be vague about the details because I imagine keeping a secret within the Embryon once two of them know about it would be very iffy), although probably not Serph for the aforementioned past life carryover issues. But so for him to encounter someone who has imposed his own karmic burden on his comrades to the degree that he ate them (willingly or not, it's never made explicit. I can actually see either, although I think him devouring them unwillingly is more likely), that would piss Cielo off beyond measure because it's so far against his thing of sharing only the burdens they can bear.
Man I talk a lot. I hope that wasn't completely incoherent XD
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One other think that always struck me as interesting, and kind of ties into all of this, is Cielo's comments/views on devouring throughout DDS2. From his defensive comments in the underground city about how regular humans still destroy other forms of life for their own sustenance, to the ones post-Abbadon about how people really can't seem to live without the sacrifices of others.
I've started to wonder how much, if at all, it'd tie into previous-Cielo's situation and world views, especially given how the Shaman candidates were essentially sacrificed for the (relative) good of humanity. I wouldn't be able to say if it were programmed into the AI or picked up from personal resonance with his former self, but the.... resentment? Has always struck an odd chord. That he and his tribe would be singled out and reviled for their 'selfish' behaviour among the Lokapala, without half a thought being given to how the Lokapala themselves use their environment. Likewise with the moment on the other end of the scale -- that if people can't live without the sacrifices of others, he wants to give something back, though the 'what' is left unspecified. Both seem odd from someone who is nearly always putting forward the minimizing, easygoing face.
(Side tangent: he really doesn't ask for a lot back, ever, does he. Even back at the beginning, it's not 'help, Gale's going to eat me'. It's 'hey, that's Gale. Thought you should know'.)
(Tangent the second: speaking of predestination, it's notable that the path that brought Seraph to where s/he is was made by the same bodies, twice over. Gotta wonder how much forgetting his laser that one time was the force of the plot, and how much was just the realization of his own immutable cycle. Varin's "How many times do you have to die for that girl!" kinda echoes.)
I could definitely see Cielo going to Gale as well, if he ever did want to talk about such things. Leaving aside that the two of them seem to grow noticeably close over the course of the last few dungeons, both have... an extra step of separation. Though I imagine Cielo's weights would be about as easy to talk about as Gale's memories of Angel -- which is to say, not at all.
... I kind of want fic of that now.
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That's a good point too. I'm guessing that that has to do with the cycle of karma, and how as long as you are stuck in the illusion you're doomed to keep repeating the cycle. I can easily see that Cielo as being relatively close to enlightenment but not there yet, as being capable of seeing that kind of thing, but not capable of understanding that it can be broken free of. Cielo kinda has a fatalistic streak. I...suddenly want to tangent on Gandhi and why I think saints tend to be fucked in the head, but that has very little to do with this I think XD
...Fic of that would be awesome. There's a lot of similar issues there, as I'm guessing one of the issues Gale struggles with in regards to Angel is feeling like he's betraying his tribe for caring about her. While one of the reasons Cielo's repressed any memory he has of Sheffield is because he feels like it's a betrayal of Serph to think like that.
While I'm thinking of it, one of the things that interests me about the Embryon as a whole is that for a tribe as close as they all are...they really don't confide in each other a whole bunch. I mean, Cielo and Gale are obviously a little distant each in their very opposite ways, but the rest of them do it too. Heat never tells anyone about kissing Sera or even admits to being sad about it really. Argilla comes closer, but she never tells anyone about what happened about Bat. She has a nervous breakdown, but she never comes out and says what happened. Serph...yeah the idea of him confiding anything is slightly absurd XD. They're always big on the "We're comrades, nothing else is important" which...is usually true! But occasionally comes back to bite them [coughHEATcough] I dunno, I find that interesting.
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