End to an old argument
Some of you probably remember when I called someone out in the kin community a while ago and called them a faker. While the person and I still have our differences, we have come to an understanding, and ceased hostilities. At her request, I am posting our reconciliation conversation here in the open, so that it may be as much a matter of public record as the initial feud.
Her is now online
Her: What?
Me: What do you mean, what?
Her: You, you haven't changed at all.
I'm mostly pissed 'cause you slandered me. I never said I WAS kin. I am not kin.
You said that.
Me: Did you expect me to have changed, honestly?
Alright, fine, but you were hanging out in the community, and making us all look bad by comparison.
Her: No I wasn't. YOU slandered me. You did. You picked me out and when you where having a bad day. How was I meant to respond? I was still going through an awakening and trying to learn. It was meant to be a learning place for me. When I realized I wasn't totally kin . I wanted to leave and was trying to.
I admit I made mistakes but what you did wasn't cool.
How would you like it if it was the other way around?
Me: You're right. I acted with quite a lot of cruelty because you annoyed me. Honestly, I don't remember the details, but I would do it again if it happened again. Its my nature, and as both a batman fan and a kin you pissed me off.
And I would care. I've been slandered in public plenty of times. But I'm able to defend my beliefs, AND my self esteem doesn't rely on the approval of others.
Her: I'm NOT KIN!
Me: No, I sadi I was pissed off AS a kin.
Her: You're alway pissed which is why I can't talk to you. You wont reason.
Me: Because other people don't differentiate. To the people outside, YOU are the face of kin.
People like you are a big reason people don't take us seriously.
Her: Yup that's right it's my fault when it comes to you.
Me: I'm not sure what you mean by that sentence.
However, I think you mean that you think *I* am the one who has a poor public face.
Her: Why do people have to be the same as you? I don't get that part.
Me: Nobody has to be the same as me. You show your ignorance in believing I think that.
But what I demand from people as far as their abberant spiritual beliefs is that they be coherent, and that the person be able to defend them rationally.
Her: I do that but you tend to piss me off.
Which is why I can't talk to you.
I wanted to talk to you back then but you wouldn't with me.
Me: We're talking now. Obviously. And back then you put in a very poor showing as far as defending yourself.
So defend yourself now. Convince me. why should I believe you?
Her: 'Cause I'm not fake. You can look me up on beenverfied.com. I've been spiritual/magical since in my teen years. I just don't know how to put things into words all the time. I like myself for who I am. I know what I believe in. I don't hurt anyone with it. It took me a long time to get where I am and I like myself for that.
Me: Okay, firstly 'because I'm not fake' is an assertion, not evidence.
What is beenverified.com and why should I trust it?
Her: So you just don't think I'm a real person. Is that it?
Me: No! That's absurd
I think you're a real person with poorly roleplayed and poorly written imaginary friends that you pretend are real.
Her: That's fine. I do not roleplay and nor do I have imagniary friends. If you think that then that is up to you.
Me: I find it amusing that you just throw back in my face whatever accusation I level at you.
Her: Mmmm I have meet people from Metropolis and Gotham from my verse and so forth. I have also worked with friends online on eBay helping with spirits and so forth and have feedback for it. So yah.
Me: Look, your medium-ship is irrelevant here. Let me ask you to do something for me
Please describe, in your own words, who you are, what your relationship with Gotham is, and what your relationship with the people thereof is.
Her: My name in Gotham Is Elisabeth. However, I mostly lived in Metropolis for most of the part. I was with Jonathan Crane and my adoptive father was Lex Luthor. I know and am friends with Alyce as well. I wasn't really pretty or anything like that just sort of there. I had more fun in high school then I did here as well.
Me: How is the you here related to the Elisabeth you? How do you believe you get back and forth? Describe the flow of information/energy.
Her: Through portals and sometimes through sleep. Jonathan has the habit talking to me at night, which I really hate. Elisabeth and I are kind of the same but not. In Gotham and Metropolis I can be myself more . Here I am more limited. I work with computers and technology in Metropolis and sometimes Gotham. Sometimes I just talk to Jonathan and Lex. Again through portals and sometimes whenI feel Jonathan it's very warm but doesn't feel like a spirit though. Not the same type of energy.
I think I understood the first question.
Me: Describe these portal to me. What are they? Do you physically leave this world, or is it mentally/spiritually?
Her: They physically leave. We've gotten into a pattern where Lex and Jonathan will sometimes live here with me.
Me: So, let me repeat what you just said.
You PHYSICALLY leave the world and enter gotham with your real body. And Lex and Jonathon PHYSICALLY come here and interact in this world with their real bodies? Is that correct?
Her: Yes.
Me: Okay. This is easy to prove then.
I will buy you a plane ticket, and you will come here, and prove this to me. I would absolutely LOVE to meet Lex. he is one of my heroes.
Her: Sounds like fun.
Me: I am absolutey serious. If you can honestly physically travel to a version of Gotham city and bring people back, I will willing to worship you as a goddess.
However, I think you are not really able to do that./
Her: Not to that degree. No.
Me: But you just said that you could? What did I misunderstand?
Her: I can but never had them on a plane before.
Me: Oh, that shouldn't be a problem, right? Just fly here by yourself, travel over from here and get them.
Her: We could always just go on my magic broom and fly. That be easier.
Me: Okay, so you're trolling me. What was the point of this conversation?
I thought you wanted me to believe you are real?
Her: Sarcasam ,
OK so you can't read sarcascam on line but that was too fun to miss.
Me: Alight, fine. But what was the problem with what I suggested? Why can't you do that?
Her: I got confused by what you were saying ..... You know with the first question it threw me off.
It's like I can see them physically and they leave spiritually. I got confused by what you meant.
I'm being honest.
Me: Okay, so they are not really physically here. You just see them as if they *were* here.
Her: yes, excatly.
Me: Can other people see them?
Her: Yea, my friend Jen can and my friend Missy can feel them and my friend Marie does too. She sees them as well.
Me: Is there a way in which they can interact with people when they are here?
Her: I know Marie does. She can go back and forth , but I am not totally sure how. I've never asked. Jen does too, but more like through just walking and talking. She's married to one of the incarnations here. If that makes sense.
Me: I'm afriad that I've lost you a bit. Could you please clarify who Jen and Marie are?
Her: They are both from Gotham. Jen is Alyce. Marie is Janya. I have had spiritual friends who have been able to see them too. That one is Missy and a man name Jacob I knew a while ago could see them too.
Me: Oh, okay. That is not what I meant. Let me clarify.
Can anyone you know who is originally from this world see or interact with people from Gotham when the people from gotham are here?
Her: Do you mean if they are from Gotham or Metropolis? Or just anyone?
Me: I mean anyone not from this world that you bring here. I am using 'gotham' to mean anywhere in the DC universe.
Her: If they are spiritually opened yes. My parents really are not into this sort of stuff and uh I do not hang out with a lot of people to ask . LOL however, my friend Deb who is a tarot reader has seen them too.
I'm still trying to understand what you are saying too. LOL.
Me: Its okay. I know we do not communicate well, so I am trying to be as clear as possible.
Let me ask; so, when Crane comes here, you are usually the only one who can see or here him?
Her: Yes, unless I am at like a metaphysical shop or something like that and others sometimes will see them. If there like intuned.
And sorry for the barriar. I have a very low reading level. So it's hard for me to communicate at times.
Me: So would I be correct in saying that he travels here as a 'spirit' and not as a physical being?
Her: I am not totally sure in a weird way. See now they feel different to me then say like fairies, or ghost and etc. But could it just be 'cause of different energy frenquency?
Me: Yes, that makes sense to me.
Her: 'Cause sometimes they are very solid to me and other times there not. I guess it depends on how much energy they have been around.
Me: When you used to update your Livejournal, sometimes there were entries signed by Crane. How were those typed?
Her: Owie that was so confusing. It was by automatic writing. I hate automatic writing it makes me feel week but it's the best way for him to write.
Me: So basically Crane told you what to write, and you typed it?
Her: I tried to the best I could, yes. However, with my medical problems here ... mmm let me see if I can explain. My brain is not totally caught up to my physical age. I often act like between 15-20. So when I type for him it drives him nuts any ways 'cause it doesn't get translated well.
Me: Alright. That makes sense. In that case, I to Crane for attacking him based on the quality of your typing.
***I apologize to Crane for
Her: It's ok . If you understood my medical background it would make so much more sense. And thank you.
Trust me when we first started talking . Jonathan and I fought a lot 'cause I didn't understand him half the time.
Me: I understand now. The way you communicate with Crane is different to the way I communicate with my bonds from other worlds.
Her: Aaahhh ok. (:
Do you want me to accpet you as a contact on my list?
Me: I usually don't use this email any more, but you can if you want.
Her: OK I will unblock you on the other one though.
Me: I appreciate that. Please let Crane know that I am sorry for the misunderstanding.
Her: Honestly that would be good 'cause he hates LJ now.
Me: If you would like, I can post this conversation between us on my livejournal, so people will know we have come to an understanding.
Her: That be SO great. I would so apricate that .
Thank you so much for letting this conversation happen and
I am sorry for what I have said in the past too.
I really am I just get so over emotional about stuff at times.
Me: I am sorry that I attacked you publicly instead of taking the time to ask you about it in private.
Her: Apology accpected . Thank you for taking the time to talk . I am so glade we did this. 'Cause we would have so much fun together, which is also partly why I was so hurt. Does that make sense?
Me: Yes, that does make sense. If you come back to LJ at all, I would put you back on my friendslist.
Her: Thanks. Maybe I will try in the future, I would have to talk to Jonathan about it.
It's honestly more him then me.
Me: Alright. Well, I have to take care of some things around the house. But I will post this conversation to LJ, and I think we will talk in the future.
Her: That sounds great. I will talk to you again soon. Have a good evening.
Me: You too.
Her is now online
Her: What?
Me: What do you mean, what?
Her: You, you haven't changed at all.
I'm mostly pissed 'cause you slandered me. I never said I WAS kin. I am not kin.
You said that.
Me: Did you expect me to have changed, honestly?
Alright, fine, but you were hanging out in the community, and making us all look bad by comparison.
Her: No I wasn't. YOU slandered me. You did. You picked me out and when you where having a bad day. How was I meant to respond? I was still going through an awakening and trying to learn. It was meant to be a learning place for me. When I realized I wasn't totally kin . I wanted to leave and was trying to.
I admit I made mistakes but what you did wasn't cool.
How would you like it if it was the other way around?
Me: You're right. I acted with quite a lot of cruelty because you annoyed me. Honestly, I don't remember the details, but I would do it again if it happened again. Its my nature, and as both a batman fan and a kin you pissed me off.
And I would care. I've been slandered in public plenty of times. But I'm able to defend my beliefs, AND my self esteem doesn't rely on the approval of others.
Her: I'm NOT KIN!
Me: No, I sadi I was pissed off AS a kin.
Her: You're alway pissed which is why I can't talk to you. You wont reason.
Me: Because other people don't differentiate. To the people outside, YOU are the face of kin.
People like you are a big reason people don't take us seriously.
Her: Yup that's right it's my fault when it comes to you.
Me: I'm not sure what you mean by that sentence.
However, I think you mean that you think *I* am the one who has a poor public face.
Her: Why do people have to be the same as you? I don't get that part.
Me: Nobody has to be the same as me. You show your ignorance in believing I think that.
But what I demand from people as far as their abberant spiritual beliefs is that they be coherent, and that the person be able to defend them rationally.
Her: I do that but you tend to piss me off.
Which is why I can't talk to you.
I wanted to talk to you back then but you wouldn't with me.
Me: We're talking now. Obviously. And back then you put in a very poor showing as far as defending yourself.
So defend yourself now. Convince me. why should I believe you?
Her: 'Cause I'm not fake. You can look me up on beenverfied.com. I've been spiritual/magical since in my teen years. I just don't know how to put things into words all the time. I like myself for who I am. I know what I believe in. I don't hurt anyone with it. It took me a long time to get where I am and I like myself for that.
Me: Okay, firstly 'because I'm not fake' is an assertion, not evidence.
What is beenverified.com and why should I trust it?
Her: So you just don't think I'm a real person. Is that it?
Me: No! That's absurd
I think you're a real person with poorly roleplayed and poorly written imaginary friends that you pretend are real.
Her: That's fine. I do not roleplay and nor do I have imagniary friends. If you think that then that is up to you.
Me: I find it amusing that you just throw back in my face whatever accusation I level at you.
Her: Mmmm I have meet people from Metropolis and Gotham from my verse and so forth. I have also worked with friends online on eBay helping with spirits and so forth and have feedback for it. So yah.
Me: Look, your medium-ship is irrelevant here. Let me ask you to do something for me
Please describe, in your own words, who you are, what your relationship with Gotham is, and what your relationship with the people thereof is.
Her: My name in Gotham Is Elisabeth. However, I mostly lived in Metropolis for most of the part. I was with Jonathan Crane and my adoptive father was Lex Luthor. I know and am friends with Alyce as well. I wasn't really pretty or anything like that just sort of there. I had more fun in high school then I did here as well.
Me: How is the you here related to the Elisabeth you? How do you believe you get back and forth? Describe the flow of information/energy.
Her: Through portals and sometimes through sleep. Jonathan has the habit talking to me at night, which I really hate. Elisabeth and I are kind of the same but not. In Gotham and Metropolis I can be myself more . Here I am more limited. I work with computers and technology in Metropolis and sometimes Gotham. Sometimes I just talk to Jonathan and Lex. Again through portals and sometimes whenI feel Jonathan it's very warm but doesn't feel like a spirit though. Not the same type of energy.
I think I understood the first question.
Me: Describe these portal to me. What are they? Do you physically leave this world, or is it mentally/spiritually?
Her: They physically leave. We've gotten into a pattern where Lex and Jonathan will sometimes live here with me.
Me: So, let me repeat what you just said.
You PHYSICALLY leave the world and enter gotham with your real body. And Lex and Jonathon PHYSICALLY come here and interact in this world with their real bodies? Is that correct?
Her: Yes.
Me: Okay. This is easy to prove then.
I will buy you a plane ticket, and you will come here, and prove this to me. I would absolutely LOVE to meet Lex. he is one of my heroes.
Her: Sounds like fun.
Me: I am absolutey serious. If you can honestly physically travel to a version of Gotham city and bring people back, I will willing to worship you as a goddess.
However, I think you are not really able to do that./
Her: Not to that degree. No.
Me: But you just said that you could? What did I misunderstand?
Her: I can but never had them on a plane before.
Me: Oh, that shouldn't be a problem, right? Just fly here by yourself, travel over from here and get them.
Her: We could always just go on my magic broom and fly. That be easier.
Me: Okay, so you're trolling me. What was the point of this conversation?
I thought you wanted me to believe you are real?
Her: Sarcasam ,
OK so you can't read sarcascam on line but that was too fun to miss.
Me: Alight, fine. But what was the problem with what I suggested? Why can't you do that?
Her: I got confused by what you were saying ..... You know with the first question it threw me off.
It's like I can see them physically and they leave spiritually. I got confused by what you meant.
I'm being honest.
Me: Okay, so they are not really physically here. You just see them as if they *were* here.
Her: yes, excatly.
Me: Can other people see them?
Her: Yea, my friend Jen can and my friend Missy can feel them and my friend Marie does too. She sees them as well.
Me: Is there a way in which they can interact with people when they are here?
Her: I know Marie does. She can go back and forth , but I am not totally sure how. I've never asked. Jen does too, but more like through just walking and talking. She's married to one of the incarnations here. If that makes sense.
Me: I'm afriad that I've lost you a bit. Could you please clarify who Jen and Marie are?
Her: They are both from Gotham. Jen is Alyce. Marie is Janya. I have had spiritual friends who have been able to see them too. That one is Missy and a man name Jacob I knew a while ago could see them too.
Me: Oh, okay. That is not what I meant. Let me clarify.
Can anyone you know who is originally from this world see or interact with people from Gotham when the people from gotham are here?
Her: Do you mean if they are from Gotham or Metropolis? Or just anyone?
Me: I mean anyone not from this world that you bring here. I am using 'gotham' to mean anywhere in the DC universe.
Her: If they are spiritually opened yes. My parents really are not into this sort of stuff and uh I do not hang out with a lot of people to ask . LOL however, my friend Deb who is a tarot reader has seen them too.
I'm still trying to understand what you are saying too. LOL.
Me: Its okay. I know we do not communicate well, so I am trying to be as clear as possible.
Let me ask; so, when Crane comes here, you are usually the only one who can see or here him?
Her: Yes, unless I am at like a metaphysical shop or something like that and others sometimes will see them. If there like intuned.
And sorry for the barriar. I have a very low reading level. So it's hard for me to communicate at times.
Me: So would I be correct in saying that he travels here as a 'spirit' and not as a physical being?
Her: I am not totally sure in a weird way. See now they feel different to me then say like fairies, or ghost and etc. But could it just be 'cause of different energy frenquency?
Me: Yes, that makes sense to me.
Her: 'Cause sometimes they are very solid to me and other times there not. I guess it depends on how much energy they have been around.
Me: When you used to update your Livejournal, sometimes there were entries signed by Crane. How were those typed?
Her: Owie that was so confusing. It was by automatic writing. I hate automatic writing it makes me feel week but it's the best way for him to write.
Me: So basically Crane told you what to write, and you typed it?
Her: I tried to the best I could, yes. However, with my medical problems here ... mmm let me see if I can explain. My brain is not totally caught up to my physical age. I often act like between 15-20. So when I type for him it drives him nuts any ways 'cause it doesn't get translated well.
Me: Alright. That makes sense. In that case, I to Crane for attacking him based on the quality of your typing.
***I apologize to Crane for
Her: It's ok . If you understood my medical background it would make so much more sense. And thank you.
Trust me when we first started talking . Jonathan and I fought a lot 'cause I didn't understand him half the time.
Me: I understand now. The way you communicate with Crane is different to the way I communicate with my bonds from other worlds.
Her: Aaahhh ok. (:
Do you want me to accpet you as a contact on my list?
Me: I usually don't use this email any more, but you can if you want.
Her: OK I will unblock you on the other one though.
Me: I appreciate that. Please let Crane know that I am sorry for the misunderstanding.
Her: Honestly that would be good 'cause he hates LJ now.
Me: If you would like, I can post this conversation between us on my livejournal, so people will know we have come to an understanding.
Her: That be SO great. I would so apricate that .
Thank you so much for letting this conversation happen and
I am sorry for what I have said in the past too.
I really am I just get so over emotional about stuff at times.
Me: I am sorry that I attacked you publicly instead of taking the time to ask you about it in private.
Her: Apology accpected . Thank you for taking the time to talk . I am so glade we did this. 'Cause we would have so much fun together, which is also partly why I was so hurt. Does that make sense?
Me: Yes, that does make sense. If you come back to LJ at all, I would put you back on my friendslist.
Her: Thanks. Maybe I will try in the future, I would have to talk to Jonathan about it.
It's honestly more him then me.
Me: Alright. Well, I have to take care of some things around the house. But I will post this conversation to LJ, and I think we will talk in the future.
Her: That sounds great. I will talk to you again soon. Have a good evening.
Me: You too.