Comments | out_of_con_txt: Meta: Benton Fraser Manipulates My Soul...

lozenger8 in out_of_con_txt

Meta: Benton Fraser Manipulates My Soul...

Jun 17, 2006 22:36

Fraser is a sweet manipulator in many situations. How is it acceptable that a Good character uses qualities we would usually reserve for Bad ones? (Such as Victoria. Boo hiss!)Most of the time, Fraser manipulates for the good of other people - yet we also have instances of him doing it for purely selfish reasons (the end of "Seeing is Believing", ( Read more... )

Comments 13

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lozenger8 June 17 2006, 23:42:14 UTC

Also I think it is some kind of an outlet for him.

Oooh, interesting interpretation. Because of his repression, you mean?

the_antichris June 17 2006, 13:24:37 UTC

I could maybe explain the Thatcher hypnosis as being for Ray's benefit as well, but the Ray hypnosis is pure selfish fun. Fraser, Fraser.

I'm glad he doesn't intentionally manipulate Ray in MotB, because the more riding on it, the less excusable it seems.

/late-night incoherence

lozenger8 June 17 2006, 23:41:09 UTC

Yes, I agree with that. There are some things we can let slide, but at other times... you have to draw the line, otherwise he loses his Good status.

the_antichris June 17 2006, 23:48:29 UTC

now i'm thinking d&d. fraser = lawful good, rayk chaotic good, rayv neutral good? /geeeeeek

lozenger8 June 17 2006, 23:50:37 UTC

YES. That is very much right.

aukestrel June 17 2006, 19:44:30 UTC

I wouldn't define the hypnosis as "manipulation" - it's just out and out wrong. Which is cool to see. Can you give any other examples of manipulation you see?

I know a lot of people see him as manipulating Vecchio but I don't see that. I see him telling V what he intends to do or ought to do or even is going to do, and what he expects V to do, and then going ahead and doing it. That V argues/bitches/whines about it isn't because F is being manipulative - it's because V is treating F like he's being manipulative, if that makes sense.

aukestrel June 17 2006, 19:50:02 UTC

I actually just thought of one, in BitH, where he's lulling Gerrard with his story and pretending to be heartbroken; and everyone is so uncomfortable with men crying (including Bob!) that F is able to turn the situation to his advantage or at least escape from certain death. Now I'd call that manipulation, clearly, but it's also quick thinking and very intelligent. *g*

lozenger8 June 17 2006, 23:40:13 UTC

Yes. That is exactly the sort of thing I mean :D

lozenger8 June 17 2006, 23:39:52 UTC

I think of Fraser as manipulative all the time. Perhaps we have different definitions of manipulative?

How about in "Hawk and a Handsaw", when he lies with the truth? He manipulates the situation because he knows that telling the truth in that way is going to make him appear crazy. There's also "Vault", where he locks him and Vecchio inside and disables the mechanism for getting out. He manipulates the situation in "Asylum" to his advantage, with the way he arrests RayK.

He isn't just manipulative of the two Rays, or even people. I'm thinking of whole situations where he uses force of will to get what he wants.

Hmmmm.

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