Julian Assange and socialist disappointment

[orphiel]

Trigger warnings for discussion of sexual assault.

Guys.

When you pick your heroes, try not to pick a massive rapist. This should surely be a (admittedly quite low-level) baseline in what you admire about people, along with e.g. not actively being in the KKK or Nazi party.

As a lot of you have ignored this advice lately, some even after it has been

Comments

[anonymous]

Given that the circumstances that can lead to a rape can be extremely confusing, we (men) really need to get it into our heads that no means no, not saying anything also means no- in fact anything short of full, enthusiastic encouragement actually means no! And even that can quite rightly turn into a no at any point- that's what consentual means.
There really is no grey area for guilt-though whether circumstances should influence consequence is possibly another debate.

[anonymous]

sometimes, i believe that some people expect men to get a written declaration of consent first

strange really that when a man says no and means it, but the woman carries on regardless, the woman is not seen as raping the man, isnt it?

[fuseblues]

Not really - women don't have penises.

#uklaw

[viclet]

Actually though, Stu, I think it should be seen as rape if the woman carries on. Just because the man still has an arection, if he decides he wants to stop then that should be equally respected. Anonymous - please be clear that what I have just said doesn't mean that I am saying that if a woman says stop and you ignore her that it isn't rape, just that women need to respect the word "stop" just as much.

[fuseblues]

I do agree with that. My snark was aimed at my hashtag.

[viclet]

Ok, fair enough. I just wanted Anonymous to realise that this is an equal situation in people's heads, rather than having an excuse to say that the feminists are being unfair.

[orphiel]

He totally does not need an excuse, he just opens his mouth and shit falls out.

[viclet]

Oops, spelling fail due to typing in small box on phone. *erection, obv.

[missgadget]

Sorry, what?

No offence taken.

[fuseblues]

Ah, yeah... Fair point.

Sorry.

[orphiel]

Weird that getting a written declaration of consent* is seen as more of a big deal than potentially raping someone because you are apparently unable to tell if they are consenting or not.

Here's a tip - As the comment above pointed out (different anonymous person) if you can't clearly tell if someone wants sex with you, don't have sex with them. You might be raping them. If you're less concerned about that than the inconvenience of finding out whether they want sex, turns out you shouldn't be allowed to have sex at all.

*Hi, hilarious straw man, I was wondering when you were going to show up! But we'll take you seriously for now, because even stopping in the middle of foreplay to get someone to sign something would be better than, y'know, raping them. Whilst still not taking away their right to stop consenting in the future. Huzzah for common sense!

[anonymous]

Different anon here.

If I got into bed with a guy who wanted to have sex with me tried to, and I didn't want to have sex, and for some reason was unable to articulate that I didn't want sex, I think the very least I would do is get out of bed. Or put clothes on. Or something. Now, in Assange's position, I'd have taken the hint and left, but I can at least see how someone might actually miss the signals, and, not being psychic, not realise that she's withdrawn consent.

It's hard to know exactly went on, since we only have one side of the story. There might be factors that we're completely failing to consider.

As for a written declaration of consent - that actually wouldn't be adequate since consent *can* be withdrawn at any time.

[fuseblues]

"It's hard to know exactly went on, since we only have one side of the story"

We clearly have both sides of the story - from Assange's lawyer and the woman's statement. BOTH overtly state he attempted to penetrate her whilst she was sleeping.

[orphiel]

In this case, he missed the signal that she was unconscious. I mean, seriously, does no one bother to read the fucking original link? If you think you have to be psychic to spot that someone's asleep before having sex with them, you shouldn't be allowed to have sex at all. There should be some kind of sex test for that, with a lock that gets attached to your bits or something

[orphiel]

In fact, hang on, here's a handy cut out and keep guide in general. If at any point you are in bed with someone, sex is on the cards, you look at them and (for whatever reason, unconsciousness, drunkness, etc) think to yourself 'It is genuinely 50/50 as to whether this person wants to have sex with me, there is no way for them to let me know, and I would have to be psychic to tell' DON'T HAVE SEX WITH THEM.

People don't exist in a state of assumed always consent, where if they don't say no they are always up for it, and if you could just do it fast enough for them not to notice it would be fine. You always need to get a yes first. Always always always. And the idea that someone could just go ahead without really knowing and that would be ok is not ok.

[fionnghuala]

You can tell that a woman wants to have sex with you in the same way you can tell whether there's a film she really wants to see, or she's feeling hungry. She will be making it very clear.