anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 11 2009, 14:44:36 UTC
Um, I think the title is bad but I couldn't come up with anything better.
I'm curious to know what people would think of requests wherein someone wants to see a ship/situation in a negative light? An anti-ship/sitation, if you will.
Examples from the top of my head, not meant to bash any ships/characters since I like some of them myself! What if someone wants to see a fic wherein character A is worried about the Chopper/Robin age-issue and brings it up? Or A is worried about Usopp in Luffy/Usopp, simply because Luffy is the captain of the ship, i.e. Usopp's boss? Or A seriously sees Garp's treatment of Coby and Helmeppo as horrible abuse? Or maybe the requester wants to see A hating Sanji?
Those kind of fics could be interesting, but I've never requested anything like them because I'm afraid some people will attack me for bashing their favorites. Should the requests have big "you can still like what you like, this included, I just wanted to see this" disclaimers? Or...?
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 11 2009, 15:10:15 UTC
I think all of those would be really interesting, actually. They're all situations that are valid to examine, and not really bashing-sounding (there have been much dodgier prompts on those grounds actually made and answered, in my opinion) although the RoCho example may be something of a dead horse by now. There was a request for respectful anti-pairing ships early on and people were okay with it.
(It may even be why I prefer Usopp on top with Luffy because they start off in a very unequal strength/power dynamic)
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 16 2009, 18:46:23 UTC
Or A is worried about Usopp in Luffy/Usopp, simply because Luffy is the captain of the ship, i.e. Usopp's boss?
Hey, I like Luffy/Usopp a lot, but I totally see that as a valid angle to see a relationship between them as problematic (as with any Luffy/other Strawhat pairing I guess). Back on page 7, I actually requested anti-pairing fic(s) and got two fills - they were anti Nami/Sanji and Sanji/Usopp, but I was fully prepared to see anti Luffy/Usopp as well, and would probably have anticipated that angle more than anything else. (The strength issue could also be important, esp with Luffy on top - Usopp might not be able to trust Luffy to be able to hold back enough, which would freak him out, but post-Enies Lobby he might be reluctant to say so, thus making things pretty damn angsty.)
The original prompt was here if you want to see it. I think you should go for it and post whichever of those requests you most want to see. Or if you'd like to write something yourself, why not provide another reply to my old request?
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 16 2009, 18:58:46 UTC
...I should probably add that when I write Luffy/Usopp I don't mean to indicate anything about sexual position, initiative or anything else: it's just a shorthand for the pairing in general, and could just as well but Usopp/Luffy. (Personally I kinda think they'd switch, assuming they evenw ant to do anal in the first place.)
(digression: I think the captain/crewmate problem is bigger with Luffy and Zoro, though, despite them being much closer in physical strength: for Zoro Luffy is much more The Captain, while for Usopp he is more the Best Friend, in my very personal opinion. But it's an issue in either case./digression)
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 16 2009, 19:00:16 UTC
...I should probably add that when I write Luffy/Usopp I don't mean to indicate anything about sexual position, initiative or anything else: it's just a shorthand for the pairing in general, and could just as well be written Usopp/Luffy. (Personally I kinda think they'd switch, assuming they even want to do anal in the first place.)
(digression: I think the captain/crewmate problem is bigger with Luffy and Zoro, though, despite them being much closer in physical strength: for Zoro Luffy is much more The Captain, while for Usopp he is more the Best Friend, in my very personal opinion. But it's an issue in either case./digression)
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 19 2009, 09:58:50 UTC
I don't think it's a problem but it's why I see Zoro bottoming for Luffy *waggles eyebrows* Because he is the Loyal First Mate and I realise I am actually stereotyping in a different way there...
It's also why I prefer Luffy mostly bottoming for Usopp, because the huge strength difference weirds me out a little there.
I would love to see someone write something addressing this with Luffy, actually, whatever crewmember they picked. Because he is the captain, and there is a strength difference, and I wanna see it taken as a problem rather than glossed over.
But then Anon has a thing about these kinds of ideas and is already the OP of the 'Luffy is dangerous in bed' prompt way back which is aproaching it.
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 20 2009, 16:30:49 UTC
Agree with you about Luffy and the strength thing. (I actually always kinda figured the stronger guy would be more likely to bottom if there's a large strength difference, at least if they're both pretty inexperienced, but most people seem to assume the other way around.)
If there has to be a pairing with Luffy and Zoro, it would be much more likely to be that way, imo (or they might switch now and then, or wouldn't do anal, etc etc)
...but it's probably because Zoro is so much the Loyal First Mate I have issues with pairing him with Luffy in any position (well, it's not that only... I think Zoro's more likely to have sex with people that isn't the most important person in the world to them...
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 20 2009, 17:50:34 UTC
(different anon) "(well, it's not that only... I think Zoro's more likely to have sex with people that isn't the most important person in the world to them..."
Ah, the aromantic Zoro? I remember a looooong discussion a few months back about him. Also the asexual Zoro and, if I recall correctly, the Zoro who would never feel at peace or satisfied. That discussion somehow managed to wipe away every trace of how I viewed Zoro and his personality. When I tried to think about him, all I got was his face and no personality at all. It was really creepy. I still haven't managed to finish writing the fic I was working on at the time. /off topic
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 20 2009, 18:01:05 UTC
Hm, well, I don't think I was involved in that discussion, or if so only adding a stray comment on the sidelines. But I'm sorry to hear the discussion affected you in that manner... Personally, I certainly don't think of Zoro as someone who'll never feel peace or be satisfied. I do think he may have some issues the way he is right now, but it's much more complex than that. (And I've read plenty of fics with a different view that seemed very possible too - canon leaves lots of room one way or the other.) But perhaps I shouldn't try to explain my view further, if you think my doing so will only obscure him for you again... (?)
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 20 2009, 18:37:53 UTC
No, I don't think you'll obscure him for me again. I only mentioned it because I'm completely fascinated with whatever happened in my brain that day (probably a combination of my mental and physical fatigue and the many well-articulated takes on his character I read) and this got me thinking about it. Sorry.
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 23 2009, 15:34:56 UTC
Well, okay. So part of it is that I think Zoro would be uncomfortable with a sexual relationship with Luffy, as Luffy's so damn close to him already he'd have practically no boundaries left, and Zoro probably figure he needs those, at least as long as he's driven to fulfill his and Kuina's dream.
(But why don't I think that when it comes to Usopp? I'm not sure... maybe because I see Usopp and Luffy are more psychologically almost-equal than Luffy and Zoro - or maybe it's because Usopp doesn't have the same need for boundaries and internal control, in my eyes...)
However, to be completely honest part of it may just be my not wanting that because Luffy and Zoro are so close that if they are lovers as well, it's like it doesn't leave enough room for the rest of the crew - it's as if I think they'd shut everyone else out. Which is probably stupid, I know.
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 20 2009, 19:11:15 UTC
Because he is the captain
For what it's worth, this anon has seen several sources claim that historically, pirate captains really only had ultimate authority in battle and other rough situations. They had to be respected, yes, but it doesn't seem like the power difference would have been quite as severe as higher rank/lower rank in the military (which is the closest thing most of us have to compare it to).
He was elected as a sort of president of this shaky democracy, someone already respected for their leadership and navigation skills who would be level-headed and decisive with the pirate crew in the heat of battle
( ... )
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 20 2009, 20:48:35 UTC
The above description doesn't really fit Luffy's role to me. They wouldn't be a crew if it wasn't for him, so he is more like the absolute authority of the navy captain, even if on a day to day basis their interactions are more casual, and Nami runs the regular happenings aboard ship. I agree that it would be a clearer position for abuse of power if it was the military, but it could still be an issue, especially with his strength thrown in.
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 20 2009, 21:05:27 UTC
The strength issue definitely doesn't help. I just wanted to point out that there's a possible real-world-based interpretation of Luffy that's not "complete power over everyone else 24/7" and kinda softens the issue. It doesn't negate it, but a relationship with a friend whose orders you follow 100% when the shit hits the fan is somewhat better than what people may be thinking.
I guess it also depends on who he's being shipped with. Everybody's kinda got their own dynamic, based on how much authority *they* have on the ship, whether they're older or younger than Luffy, and that sort of thing.
Re: anti-X fics?
anonymous
March 20 2009, 21:16:10 UTC
Oh, I agree that it's easy - probably easier - to see it as not a problem. But I think it'd be interesting to get a view of it as a problem occasionally. I think that would be fun.
Generally speaking they all interact near enough as equals that it's easy to ship anyone with anyone. But there are hints of other tensions and I'd like to see those a bit more than I do.
I'm curious to know what people would think of requests wherein someone wants to see a ship/situation in a negative light? An anti-ship/sitation, if you will.
Examples from the top of my head, not meant to bash any ships/characters since I like some of them myself! What if someone wants to see a fic wherein character A is worried about the Chopper/Robin age-issue and brings it up? Or A is worried about Usopp in Luffy/Usopp, simply because Luffy is the captain of the ship, i.e. Usopp's boss? Or A seriously sees Garp's treatment of Coby and Helmeppo as horrible abuse? Or maybe the requester wants to see A hating Sanji?
Those kind of fics could be interesting, but I've never requested anything like them because I'm afraid some people will attack me for bashing their favorites. Should the requests have big "you can still like what you like, this included, I just wanted to see this" disclaimers? Or...?
Opinions! Discussion!
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(It may even be why I prefer Usopp on top with Luffy because they start off in a very unequal strength/power dynamic)
Reply
Hey, I like Luffy/Usopp a lot, but I totally see that as a valid angle to see a relationship between them as problematic (as with any Luffy/other Strawhat pairing I guess). Back on page 7, I actually requested anti-pairing fic(s) and got two fills - they were anti Nami/Sanji and Sanji/Usopp, but I was fully prepared to see anti Luffy/Usopp as well, and would probably have anticipated that angle more than anything else. (The strength issue could also be important, esp with Luffy on top - Usopp might not be able to trust Luffy to be able to hold back enough, which would freak him out, but post-Enies Lobby he might be reluctant to say so, thus making things pretty damn angsty.)
The original prompt was here if you want to see it. I think you should go for it and post whichever of those requests you most want to see. Or if you'd like to write something yourself, why not provide another reply to my old request?
Reply
(digression: I think the captain/crewmate problem is bigger with Luffy and Zoro, though, despite them being much closer in physical strength: for Zoro Luffy is much more The Captain, while for Usopp he is more the Best Friend, in my very personal opinion. But it's an issue in either case./digression)
Reply
(digression: I think the captain/crewmate problem is bigger with Luffy and Zoro, though, despite them being much closer in physical strength: for Zoro Luffy is much more The Captain, while for Usopp he is more the Best Friend, in my very personal opinion. But it's an issue in either case./digression)
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It's also why I prefer Luffy mostly bottoming for Usopp, because the huge strength difference weirds me out a little there.
I would love to see someone write something addressing this with Luffy, actually, whatever crewmember they picked. Because he is the captain, and there is a strength difference, and I wanna see it taken as a problem rather than glossed over.
But then Anon has a thing about these kinds of ideas and is already the OP of the 'Luffy is dangerous in bed' prompt way back which is aproaching it.
Reply
If there has to be a pairing with Luffy and Zoro, it would be much more likely to be that way, imo (or they might switch now and then, or wouldn't do anal, etc etc)
...but it's probably because Zoro is so much the Loyal First Mate I have issues with pairing him with Luffy in any position (well, it's not that only... I think Zoro's more likely to have sex with people that isn't the most important person in the world to them...
Reply
"(well, it's not that only... I think Zoro's more likely to have sex with people that isn't the most important person in the world to them..."
Ah, the aromantic Zoro? I remember a looooong discussion a few months back about him. Also the asexual Zoro and, if I recall correctly, the Zoro who would never feel at peace or satisfied. That discussion somehow managed to wipe away every trace of how I viewed Zoro and his personality. When I tried to think about him, all I got was his face and no personality at all. It was really creepy. I still haven't managed to finish writing the fic I was working on at the time. /off topic
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Personally, I certainly don't think of Zoro as someone who'll never feel peace or be satisfied. I do think he may have some issues the way he is right now, but it's much more complex than that. (And I've read plenty of fics with a different view that seemed very possible too - canon leaves lots of room one way or the other.)
But perhaps I shouldn't try to explain my view further, if you think my doing so will only obscure him for you again... (?)
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(But why don't I think that when it comes to Usopp? I'm not sure... maybe because I see Usopp and Luffy are more psychologically almost-equal than Luffy and Zoro - or maybe it's because Usopp doesn't have the same need for boundaries and internal control, in my eyes...)
However, to be completely honest part of it may just be my not wanting that because Luffy and Zoro are so close that if they are lovers as well, it's like it doesn't leave enough room for the rest of the crew - it's as if I think they'd shut everyone else out. Which is probably stupid, I know.
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For what it's worth, this anon has seen several sources claim that historically, pirate captains really only had ultimate authority in battle and other rough situations. They had to be respected, yes, but it doesn't seem like the power difference would have been quite as severe as higher rank/lower rank in the military (which is the closest thing most of us have to compare it to).
He was elected as a sort of president of this shaky democracy, someone already respected for their leadership and navigation skills who would be level-headed and decisive with the pirate crew in the heat of battle ( ... )
Reply
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I guess it also depends on who he's being shipped with. Everybody's kinda got their own dynamic, based on how much authority *they* have on the ship, whether they're older or younger than Luffy, and that sort of thing.
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Generally speaking they all interact near enough as equals that it's easy to ship anyone with anyone. But there are hints of other tensions and I'd like to see those a bit more than I do.
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