"canada is too big to fail" o rly

[beemo]

It takes a century and a half of political imagination, heroic toil and, to be sure, great geopolitical luck to build a country like Canada. It takes but a year or two of hubris, lassitude and ignorance for the whole thing to be lost.

There is today in Canada a dangerous line of argument that must be checked by all thinking citizens: It holds that

Comments

Re: on the topic of french in school

[lurkch]

The problem with the whole bilingual thing is that the Quebecois seem to expect everyone else to be bilingual while clinging to their monolingualism in their home province. I did an exchange in high school with a school in Quebec and all of us anglos could easily get by speaking French because we were taught by native French speakers (I went to school in 3 provinces and was consistently taught by native French speakers at every school). The Quebec kids, on the other hand, were taught English by native French speakers with atrocious accents/grammar (we spent a day at each other's schools going to classes) and couldn't even understand something as basic as "Dinner is ready."

Until English isn't a dirty word in Quebec, I don't see bilingualism catching on. Heck, the province that gains the most from bilingualism isn't even officially bilingual yet expects bilingualism everywhere else in Canada.

Re: on the topic of french in school

[wisdomsawoman]

I don't know where exactly you went, but I can tell you that learning english is very much encouraged in Quebec schools. More importantly, to get a job you practically HAVE to speak english (some employers will even do half the interview in french and the other half in english). Of course, the further you get from the big cities, the less people will speak english. But I think you are judging very quickly the level of bilingualism in Quebec.

Re: on the topic of french in school

[lurkch]

I have much more experience with the Quebecois than that that leads me to believe there is a resistance to learning English. Like my university French professor who prided himself on the fact that he's lived in an English speaking province for years yet still can't get by in English in the wider community. Like my friend in elementary school who was in the French immersion class with me despite that fact that she was fluent in French because her parents didn't want her learning English. It's not a quick judgment. It's one formed over decades based on dealing with Quebecois living outside of Quebec--the same people who should be the most willing to learn English since it benefits them directly and immediately

Re: on the topic of french in school

[wisdomsawoman]

English immersion schools do exist, mostly at the primary school level, but they also have them in high school

Re: on the topic of french in school

[lurkch]

No need to apologize. I cited one instance, you had no way of knowing I wasn't basing my opinion solely on that instance

Re: on the topic of french in school

[wisdomsawoman]

I think the idea of losing French is a very complicated one in Quebec society. If I can take myself as an example, I love English, I think it's an easy language to learn, and I can communicate with so many people with it. But French is my heart, it's who I am. Therefore I am all for learning English, but I am also very protective of my language. I even sometimes worry that people around me are going to perceive my going to an English university as a betrayal (though no one ever said it to my face, except an old weird guy once...) I'm not sure it's easy to comprehend to people outside Quebec. We were lucky enough to never lose our language, but we did it with perseverance, and with laws like Loi 101. So I can say that, although sometimes these laws take it a bit far, at the end of the day they're doing their job.

Re: on the topic of french in school

[youkiddinright]

I'm sorry, but as a French Quebecer, this is far from the truth. English classes start in preschool. There are talks about making half a year of primary school in English to teach children the language while they are still young. In French universities, professors expect you to be able to read and understand complicated essays in English. I work for a provincial government agency and I had to be bilingual to get the job. Just because our stop signs are in French doesn't mean 'English' is an effing dirty word in Quebec.

Re: on the topic of french in school

[crazyponko]

I don't know about other Canadians, but for me the biggest problem was no one around here speaks any french to practice with. I took french all the way from kindergarten to OAC, but I have never had an opportunity to use it. Spanish or Chinese would have been more useful to me if we are talking the benefits of being bilingual.

Re: on the topic of french in school

[lurkch]

No kidding. Fourteen years of French immersion (kindergarten to 1st year uni) and I haven't used it since (except to occasionally watch the news on the French CBC channel for a different perspective). Unless you want to work for the federal government, other languages are more useful especially in business or social work.

Re: on the topic of french in school

[beemo]

the curriculum sucks too. i had good french teachers, and i remember being able to carry on a conversation in french around grade 9/10. but it was really lousy academic french and when i moved to quebec, i was totally lost.

people in other countries learn to USE their second languages, and they have the motivation & opportunity to do so. it's a different game for english speakers in english communities.

Re: on the topic of french in school

[jazzypom]

people in other countries learn to USE their second languages, and they have the motivation & opportunity to do so. it's a different game for english speakers in english communities.

Not Canadian but British, and this is true in my neck of the woods. For serious.

Re: on the topic of french in school

[beemo]

which, you learn to use languages or it's different for english speakers?