Halal and kosher hit by Dutch ban

Nov 09, 2011 17:53

6 November 2011[embedded video via source link provides much more info ( Read more... )

food, animal rights, netherlands, judaism, islam, xenophobia, islamophobia, anti-semitism

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dangerousdame November 10 2011, 01:02:32 UTC
Well, this means that most observant Jews there will have to emigrate. So much for the Netherlands being a tolerant paradise...

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sesmo November 10 2011, 01:47:03 UTC
The Netherlands isn't that big, they will just have to import from nearby. Still a deliberate targeting (and likely of Muslims not of Jews).

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thecityofdis November 10 2011, 02:48:18 UTC
Dude, halal and kosher are different. If this weren't targeting Jews as well as Muslims, they wouldn't include shomer kashrut.

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rosicrucian November 10 2011, 03:39:57 UTC
They aren't that different, though. That's why all kosher meat is halal. I think it's mostly the prayers said over the meat that's different in the long run.

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rosicrucian November 10 2011, 17:45:27 UTC
Yeah, I can't find kosher meat here very well, either. Not without going way up into the cities to get it, which by the time I'd be able to get it home, it'd certainly have spoiled.

Also, thank you for the link. Will be reading now. :)

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iolarah November 12 2011, 00:12:20 UTC
Thanks for the link, I've often wondered if there were differences, and what they might be.

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thelilyqueen November 10 2011, 05:01:18 UTC
It affects both, yes, and they are different but I think it's not wild to wonder (which is what I think sesmo's getting at) if Muslims are the real target of the ban, with kosher-observant Jews serving as a distraction/smoke screen; only banning halal meat would be too obvious, especially when I'm not sure how one would argue that one set of practices is significantly more or less humane.

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thecityofdis November 10 2011, 05:05:25 UTC
1) Nobody really cares about looking obvious. Western European countries are banning burqas and minarets left and right. When they want to target Muslims, they target Muslims.

2) Saying "Jews are just a distraction" demonstrates remarkable ignorance of anti-Semitism, both in the present day and its very long and ugly history in Western Europe.

So, again: No.

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thelilyqueen November 10 2011, 05:48:52 UTC
I didn't intend to imply I thought kosher-observant Jews are just a distraction. More that I could see how including them in the ban could muddy the waters a bit, and would be added douchery for the anti-Semites you mention. I haven't researched this particular ban enough at this point (and my brain should be asleep) to assert much of anything about it as fact besides that it's religiously discriminatory and the animal rights arguments they're trying to use are logic-missing.

You are right to bring up the burqua and minaret bans as evidence they don't care much about being obvious, but (I'm less familiar with the minaret issue) with the burqua they did bother to make excuses about ability to ID people, women's rights, etc. Transparent as all get out, but...

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chrys20 November 10 2011, 08:19:48 UTC
No, the ban is against unanesthetised (?) slaughter. The ban was intended against Muslims, not Jews. But because the parties didn't do their research properly it was found that Muslims can slaughter with anesthetics but not Jews. The far right party of NL is pro-Jewish so they're scrambling and working themselves up in a tizzy because this measure makes them look bad.

If you think this ban was intended against Jews and not Muslims you don't know anything about the current political climate in the Netherlands. I would request for your sake you refrain from commenting further on this topic.

(And don't start about anti-semitism. I'm highly aware of it's history both here locally and in Europe as a whole.)

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rosicrucian November 10 2011, 19:06:04 UTC
This is why I love the notes system. Truly.

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rosicrucian November 10 2011, 20:28:19 UTC
If you haven't, sign up for the Paid Account Trial - http://www.livejournal.com/free-trial/

Then, remind me next Wednesday and I'll buy you two months.

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