An Israeli man of Arab origin has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew
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There are some lies that are rape (like the case a while back where a twin brother lied about being someone's partner to sleep with them). Saying you're another religion/make more money/are naturally blonde isn't one of them.
The fact that it apparently only applies to Muslim men and not Jewish men is sickening.
The whole scenario doesn't sit right with me, and it feels as if there is outrage that those dirty Arab men would dare touch their virtuous Jewish women.
What one person would write off as unimportant, though, might be very important to another person. Lying about your religion isn't really on the same order as what money you make and what color your hair really is. Religion is a fundamental expression of who that person is. Money and hair color aren't.
I agree that the woman's bigotry in this case is saddening and wrong, but that doesn't mean it was all right for the man to lie to her so she'd sleep with him.
And for many, it's less important. Depending on where I am, I'll call myself Catholic, Anglican, or pagan. It's not my religion that changes, it's the relative safety of calling myself one thing or another. And indeed, I've had sex with folks after that - that's no rape.
And certainly, I've slept with people without detailing my gender identity. I didn't rape them because they took the assumption that they knew my gender.
Lies aren't always ethical. They aren't rape either.
I understand that religion and gender identity are totally irrelevant to some people. And that's great! In the the end, sex should be about what you are comfortable with
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I think there needs to be a definition beyond "I feel hurt and upset about this sexual encounter." And feeling hurt and upset over a sexual encounter is not something to trivialise or diminish, but is also very different from rape.
This article doesn't say that she outright said, "You are Jewish, right? I only sleep with Jewish men, okay? You have to be Jewish and a man and X and Y and Z." He identified himself as such - but it doesn't say how. He might have had no way of knowing that what could have been, to him, a small white lie - similar to saying he was wealthy or naturally blond or part of a secret society or was assigned male at birth or was gay.
Lying about something isn't the same as raping them.
It's not nice. It's not honest. It's probably not what upstanding citizens of good standing do in order to get laid (or in the process of getting laid).
Ah, okay, I understand. I wasn't really thinking of it that way, but that makes sense.
The situation was bad all around, really. It's a shame the man felt like lying, even if he did think it was trivial thing to lie about, but it's also a shame that the lady was okay with everything until she found out he was Muslim. The whole thing makes me uncomfortable, really. But I can what you mean by saying it isn't rape.
Thank you for explaining everything so clearly, anyway. ^^
religion is not a fundamental expression for everybody. for some, it's very important. for others, it really isn't at all. and for others, it's kinda important. it's not black or white.
eta: nobody is really making the case that it's okay to lie, so stop beating that dead horse.
The fact that it apparently only applies to Muslim men and not Jewish men is sickening.
Well thats really speculation... could be true, but at the same time, I don't doubt the consequences would be much worse for a Jewish man if he was in a predominantly muslim country.
The thing about saying you are another religion, is very different than saying you make more money or are naturally blond. It is not that simple. Religion can be a very deep personal thing and someone who is very passionate about their religion (even if they don't follow every law...) can feel quite violated if they were tricked into going against it. Is it really rape? I don't personally think so, but I wouldn't trivialize her feelings either.
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The fact that it apparently only applies to Muslim men and not Jewish men is sickening.
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I agree that the woman's bigotry in this case is saddening and wrong, but that doesn't mean it was all right for the man to lie to her so she'd sleep with him.
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And certainly, I've slept with people without detailing my gender identity. I didn't rape them because they took the assumption that they knew my gender.
Lies aren't always ethical. They aren't rape either.
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This article doesn't say that she outright said, "You are Jewish, right? I only sleep with Jewish men, okay? You have to be Jewish and a man and X and Y and Z." He identified himself as such - but it doesn't say how. He might have had no way of knowing that what could have been, to him, a small white lie - similar to saying he was wealthy or naturally blond or part of a secret society or was assigned male at birth or was gay.
Lying about something isn't the same as raping them.
It's not nice. It's not honest. It's probably not what upstanding citizens of good standing do in order to get laid (or in the process of getting laid).
But it's still not rape.
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The situation was bad all around, really. It's a shame the man felt like lying, even if he did think it was trivial thing to lie about, but it's also a shame that the lady was okay with everything until she found out he was Muslim. The whole thing makes me uncomfortable, really. But I can what you mean by saying it isn't rape.
Thank you for explaining everything so clearly, anyway. ^^
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eta: nobody is really making the case that it's okay to lie, so stop beating that dead horse.
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Well thats really speculation... could be true, but at the same time, I don't doubt the consequences would be much worse for a Jewish man if he was in a predominantly muslim country.
The thing about saying you are another religion, is very different than saying you make more money or are naturally blond. It is not that simple. Religion can be a very deep personal thing and someone who is very passionate about their religion (even if they don't follow every law...) can feel quite violated if they were tricked into going against it. Is it really rape? I don't personally think so, but I wouldn't trivialize her feelings either.
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