John Kasich Confused About Why Women Objected To His Sexual Assault Victim-Blaming Comments
Gov. John Kasich (R-OH) said on Sunday that he does not understand the criticism over his comments Friday suggesting that college women should prevent sexual assaults by avoiding parties with alcohol.
In an interview with CNN’s Dana Bash, the Republican presidential hopeful noted that his own daughters will someday go to college parties where there ( Read more... )
In an interview with CNN’s Dana Bash, the Republican presidential hopeful noted that his own daughters will someday go to college parties where there ( Read more... )
This is why I opted not to report my rapist. We were in a relationship, making out, I was under the influence of sleep meds that he knew made me pliable, and I did say I was uncomfortable with sex because we had effectively been not involved for two months, so I was not okay with the sudden interest now that he was horny. I was so drugged that even though I said I wasn't okay with it, he gave some lines about how he was lonely and just wanted physical intimate contact, and that ... well in my drugged brain it was a pity fuck. But I realized immediately after, even still drugged, that I was not okay with what happened. I have a chat log still from talking to a friend after I went upstairs: "I think I just got raped."
But, because of all these factors, I knew it would not go well for me. I did use it as a threat when he was being an ass about us evicting him, and said I could get a restraining order (I probably could have based on other factors) and have him out that day, and that I could report him for what he did. My ex-partner told him flat-out, "In a perfect world, you'd be in jail right now."
But it's not a perfect world. It's a world that punishes women for being victimized. So I didn't report. And I have talked a lot about it in various places for visibility, because this needs to be known.
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Thank you. *hugs offered*
I know decidedly few women who have not been raped. I also know many non-binary people and men who have been raped. Honestly, a surprising amount of the latter; I'd actually guess that about 30% of my male friends are survivors. I wouldn't use that as the average for the populace as a whole, but rather indicative about who I am friends with.
ALL the people I know have been raped by people they knew. Yes, a boyfriend, girlfriend, husband/wife, partner, or friend. Don't get me started on woman on woman rapes, which are pretty universally ignored, but something that has happened to me. If I have to explain "how that works" one more time I may just strangle someone.
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Yeah I didn't report my almost rape either.
I didn't report it because the man who almost raped me (and would have if I hadn't managed to get away from him) basically implied I had 'overreacted'. I actually believed him (in part because one of my friends actually agreed with him) and convinced myself it wasn't a big deal (I was only 18).
PS: He was also someone I knew and it didn't happen in a dark alley/street.
PPS: Not as horrible as what happened to nonnycat, though, of course. I got lucky.
(Edited to add an additional point+for typos because I can't type with cold fingers)
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I'm sorry. This is going to get long and detailed, because I feel it's important to talk about. Uh, written after I went to post... let me say, a LOT longer than I meant. I'm not quite sure how to TLDR this but I'm going to steal one paragraph from near the end that I think sums up why I am writing this. I make the offer at the end for cookies, but dear gods, I think anyone who finishes reading this needs a goddamn PLATTER of cookies (plus, the dark side always has 'em). Since they're virtual cookies, pick your fav. :)
OK, excerpt of two paragraphs:
So... no, sweetie*, I did not "have it worse." We both had traumatic things happen to us, and it's entirely possible if we both talked in detail about our experiences, I might think you had it worse. Because that's how we're trained to think. I firmly believe this is a heavily conditioned thought train that needs to be broken. ANYONE, male, female, otherwise, who has been raped has been traumatized, and it shouldn't be about "who has it worse." We should be there to support each other, because we've all been hurt, instead of worrying that we weren't hurt enough for it to "count." I'd also argue that focusing on how other people have it worse lessens the seriousness of our own trauma and can lead focus away from healing from our own trauma.
So, again, no. Very much no. You, and everyone else who has been talking about their own experiences, even in this thread around a particularly dense person who refuses to listen to women's experience, all of us, our trauma is important to us, affects us, and there is no gauging. I was reading... I believe it was in the Lewinksy interview, where she was talking about anti-bullying, and she said that people would tell her they didn't have it "as bad." Implying that it didn't count somehow. What she'd tell them (paraphrased) is that it didn't matter if they were both in water and she was 60ft in and the other person was 30ft in... both are going to drown. I thought that was an especially eloquent way to describe how trauma sizing helps no one, and instead does harm.
Following is the much more detailed version, with more of my experiences than I had discussed in that one comment:
I feel I need to speak up. I know plenty of people that I could describe "have it worse", although I can't give details because confidentiality.
Actually, I can describe this situation because I have permission as my family is large enough it would be impossible to figure out "who". One of my aunts has talked about her sister being raped next to her in the bed they shared. Their mom beat them for "lying" and their rapist cousin was allowed continued access. The fact that pretty much all of the men on my Mom's side, save my uncles and cousins (who are survivors themselves), are rapists is pretty damn terrifying.
I believe very much in there not being a trauma Olympics. I think everyone, no matter the severity, thinks that what they went through wasn't as bad. I think about what some of my friends, and family, have gone through and to me, what happened isn't that bad because it hasn't been super traumatizing. It's not that it was fun to go through, but it took me a couple months to get over; other things that ex did were more traumatic.
Same thing, really, with the woman who raped me three times when I was 19; the relationship and household structure as a whole were way worse than the rapes. One of which I would have consented to, but I was drunk and she didn't *ask* me, and the third, I still don't know if she was awake or asleep but I was most worried about my new partner being upset at me (answer: no, but they were sure upset at her).
(ct'd)
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The second is the one that bothered me the most, because it was a rape roleplay BDSM scene, and she pushed past my "soft" safeword. It's probable she was acting in character, but ... okay, as a possible partial result of this, I started to realize I am more switchy, and it's only been now, 12yrs later, that I've been able to explore the sub side again. But I've spent a lot of time as a domme, and even in a roleplay scenario, I would hear a soft safeword, however it was phrased, and stop to check in. Breaking the "mood" is less important than making sure your sub/bottom is okay. If you sort things out and can't get back into the "mood", then you either stop or alter the scene, depending on what the sub/bottom want. Also, depending on how comfortable I am; something I think a lot of dommes don't realize is that yes, they can safeword, too. I have done so before because I wasn't confident that we could just move on without potential harm, or simply because I wasn't comfortable doing some of the things asked. (If you hadn't guessed, this is a soapbox of mine.)
I don't think she knows that these would be considered rapes, but she does know they hurt me, especially the second incident. After we ended our relationship, she decided she wasn't really wired well for poly because of various mental health and traumatic issues. What she did as a result of those is what I refer to as more traumatic than the rapes.
I don't think she knows that these would be considered rapes, but she does know they hurt me. I've talked with her in some detail recently after getting back in touch with my nieces (for about a year when I lived there, I was effective co-parent because she was too ill to get out of bed or off the couch most days, and my boyfriend worked crazy hours, so the girls very much remember and love their Auntie Nonny... and holy shit, they're 21 and 18, where the hell did time go!?).
She has properly, in detail, apologized for what she did, mentioned that she got into therapy and on medication for the unresolved issues that were causing her to lash out, and has not had another partner since (confirmed by nieces). What she did to me is not okay, but I know it's very uncommon for someone who was abusive to make that kind of effort and be successful, it's been twelve years so the trauma that remains is very dulled, and I *PERSONALLY* have chosen to forgive her. Note: I do NOT absolutely NOT apply this to anyone else or say it's what they should do; it's how *I* deal with these situations, period, and I'm aware that I am an EXTREME outlier and abnormality.
That doesn't mean I'll forget it or allow myself in a position where I can be hurt again, but the apology was more than I ever thought I'd get, and I miss my friend. My fiancee, who is on this community (omimouse), does not understand how I can forgive someone who did these things to me. All I can say is, different people respond differently. I don't want to carry around the baggage, it was a real apology backed up with action, and closure and being able to move on, whether or not I remain friends with the person, is important to me.
Side note, but it has been joked that with my ability to forgive and rebuild a friendship with someone who hurt me, I am far more Christian than many Christians, and I'm pagan. This amuses me because I hear it from both Christians and pagans. I tell people that for reasons of having a clue by forest in a particularly vivid vision-dream (If curious, I'll explain, but I know the community is a bit twitchy on "woo" so I ask first; if someone wants to know, others can deal), I am pagan because the Christian path isn't mine (too many limitations), but I consider Christ my Father-God and Bast my Mother-Goddess. Pagan response is usually about like this: o__O
ANYWAY. Those aren't even ALL of the rapes (by technicality, seven; I count them, but only about three were actually traumatic, and it did not take me long to recover.
(ct'd... again... hopefully the next will be the last)
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Let me just put it blunt. My childhood abuse is severe enough that I can let rape slide off my back with a few months to a year's recovery in the form of talking to people (yes, I know, therapy, but every time we got in a place where we could afford it, poof! went my insurance). My childhood issues massively dwarf the rapes to the point that even the two or three worst ones, if I start comparing levels of trauma, are "*shrug* Meh."
This did get to be a segue, and I went into more detail in part because I wanted to also illustrate that within my own life, with seven rapes, there are different levels of trauma. Even if I did say some don't impact me as much, it doesn't mean that they are without trauma. It's just a lot less trauma.
I think the same is true when it comes to talking about trauma with other people who are survivors. It is really, really ridiculously damn easy to shrug off your own experiences as "not being that bad." For instance, I had never heard someone have experiences worse than the trauma Ma and Pa Ham put my mother, aunts, and uncles through. And then this friend started talking, and it's about 10x worse. I didn't think it was possible. I can't talk about what Ma and Pa Ham did except on my own LJ, where I can use a cut tag (well, hm, I'm forgetting spoiler tags, I suppose those count work in comments) that is heavily detailed... but people read it and still came out triggered despite the in-depth warnings because it was that fucking severe
I will note something. To my knowledge, every child of Ma Ham's was raped, sometimes multiply. Do you know that I've heard from them that other people have it worse? Note what I said above about not being able to talk about those experiences (I should add I have permission) because of how triggering they are. My Mom, aunts, and uncles think other people have it worse.
So, if you have people with that level of trauma who think "No, this person over here has it so much worse" -- it happens on every level. We compare against each other, and we try to say, "It wasn't that bad." But it WAS that bad, for each of us as an individual. Comparing against others is, I think, something we're socialized to do, especially those of us who have had conditioning as women from a young age. We're taught to minimize our experiences and to focus on others instead of ourselves.
So... no, sweetie*, I did not "have it worse." We both had traumatic things happen to us, and it's entirely possible if we both talked in detail about our experiences, I might think you had it worse. Because that's how we're trained to think. I firmly believe this is a heavily conditioned thought train that needs to be broken. ANYONE, male, female, otherwise, who has been raped has been traumatized, and it shouldn't be about "who has it worse." We should be there to support each other, because we've all been hurt, instead of worrying that we weren't hurt enough for it to "count." I'd also argue that focusing on how other people have it worse lessens the seriousness of our own trauma and can lead focus away from healing from our own trauma.
So, again, no. Very much no. You, and everyone else who has been talking about their own experiences, even in this thread around a particularly dense person who refuses to listen to women's experience, all of us, our trauma is important to us, affects us, and there is no gauging. I was reading... I believe it was in the Lewinksy interview, where she was talking about anti-bullying, and she said that people would tell her they didn't have it "as bad." Implying that it didn't count somehow. What she'd tell them (paraphrased) is that it didn't matter if they were both in water and she was 60ft in and the other person was 30ft in... both are going to drown. I thought that was an especially eloquent way to describe how trauma sizing helps no one, and instead does harm.
(ct'd ... again ... THE FUCK SELF?)
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Seriously. If I could draw worth a damn I'd offer free sketches for whoever read this in entirely. Or something. I can do drabbles, though! I prefer original fiction, give me things like mood or theme or idea or character concept and I'll roll with it. Fandoms: (TV/Film) Teen Wolf (particularly Sterek as Omi keeps sending me fic), Star Trek DS9 (fav characters: Dax and Garak), Star Trek TOS (not the movie, and I like all the cast), MCU (BUCKY! okay and Loki because I love a witty chaos-oriented villain), Babylon 5 (Ivanova/Talia/Marcus is my OT3) (Books): Vorkosigan saga, Black Jewels series (yes yes I know gender essentialism; there is a reason I have a fic in progress about a non-binary race of Kindred that have been kept secret), ask me otherwise because I read a lot but it's easier to come up with drabbles for long series, and most of those, I don't read until they're finished... and there are a LOT of series that I like that are still in progress.
Anyway, the FINAL END TO THE COMMENT SPREE:
I want to add that I think everyone who has talked about this has been, IMO, very brave (different from inspirational, promise!) to do so, specifically in this post where we have some idiot male running around invalidating the traumatic experiences of others. Those people, whether they mean to or not, silence women (and other survivors) because they flood the environment with fear. If you have to worry that you'll get targeted by said idiot male and told that your trauma doesn't matter, because XYZ rape myths, then... at least for me, it's a lot harder to post about. I posted because I thought it was important, and because I'm in a mental state where I can handle a goddamn throwdown. But I've been in states where I couldn't, and I've remained silent. So, I wanted to thank everyone for talking about their experiences, because it is so very important. Love to you all. <3
AND OMFG IF YOU GOT THROUGH THIS YOU GET WHATEVER VIRTUAL COOKIE OR BOOZE OR WHATEVER THAT YOU WANT BECAUSE SERIOUSLY I DID NOT MEAN FOR THIS TO EXPLODE. Apparently, I have Feelings on the matter. A lot of them. Self! Stop writing novels in comments! (I'll go weeks without making a comment and then BOOM, I write something like this or the long comment in one of the Hillary threads.)
*I use terms of endearment sometimes, when I am trying to support someone, and it is not at all meant to be condescending. I lived in Texas for a few years, plus MA, where I swear everyone I knew there used "hon" in the same meant-to-be-supportive way. I wanted to clarify how this was meant, because it can come across condescending, and I wanted to make sure you knew that wasn't my intention. If it bothers you, please accept my most sincere apologies, and let me offer a virtual hug (or more cookies? or both, if you want!) instead. :)
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It's pretty liberating, really, to realize I don't have to feel guilty for feeling traumatized about what happened.
PS: No, the hon didn't across as condescending at all! Thanks so much for your comments, they honestly made my day.
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It took me a long time to get to this place myself, and I had a lot of friends who helped me. You are absolutely right in how empowering and liberating it is to not have to feel guilty. Once I was able to get to that place... yeah. It helped so, so much.
And I'm very glad my long-ass-from-hell comment helped. Yay! :D
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*HUG* in thanks, because (again) I had never thought of it that way. :)
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*hugs offered*
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